Bonus Episode: Stop Making Sense (1984)

Join Nick, Darren, Amanda, and Kailyn in this special, first-ever A24KGold/Rock in Retrospect crossover! In this episode, the group discusses what many film critics have called the greatest concert film ever made, Jonathan Demme’s Stop Making Sense, which features the Talking Heads live in concert as they perform their hits at the Hollywood Pantages Theatre in 1983. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Hey everyone and welcome to another episode of Rock in Retrospect. I'm your host, Nick Bambeck. Joining me are my co-host for another podcast that I'm on, which is a 24 carat gold. And if you're asking yourselves, Nick has another podcast, the answer is yes. I don't know how I get sleep. I mean, I do other things that we won't even get into tonight, but I do this fun show that we started back in January, and it's called A24 Carat Gold. So I got Amanda, Darren, and Kaylin here with me tonight. And I'm gonna let them all introduce themselves. And because Amanda has never been on Rock and Retrospect, so she's a newbie in this world, we're gonna let Amanda talk about herself. So we'll let you do that, Amanda.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Well, it's good to it's good to finally be on an episode of Rock and Rock in Retrospect. I definitely listened to a couple in in preparation for this. Um, but I'm Amanda, one of the hosts of A24K Gold. Um and yeah, I think this is gonna be gonna be interesting for me. I collect vinyl and and things like that, and I'm familiar with the talking heads, but probably not to the extent that maybe Nick or or Kaelin or Darren are. So I'm just really excited to kind of learn more things. And I had a lot of fun watching this, watching this documentary, and I've really, really enjoyed it. So I can't believe it's actually first time watch for me. So um yeah, just excited to be here and and chat with you all, as as per usual on our other podcast, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Absolutely. It's almost like a longtime listener, first-time, you know, guest type of situation. First time caller. Yes, first time caller. Uh yeah. So I'm so excited that I can't get my phrases right tonight. So thank you, uh Amanda, for that. And Darren has been on the show multiple times, but we'll let you just introduce yourself, Darren, in case if someone had not listened to the show beforehand.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Okay, uh well, my name is Darren Hines, and yeah, I have been on Rock and Retrospect uh quite a few times over the years, uh, starting with uh episode about the Smiths, who like the talking heads are one of my probably 10 favorite bands of all time. Also done a lot of episodes on um the Oscar nomination, named songs and scores every year with uh Nick and Peter. I've been on here kind of as a regular. Um talking heads are amazing, and I can't wait to talk about the greatest concert film of all time.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Great. Thank you, Darren. And last but certainly not least, and also alphabetically for the first name, it's Kaelin.

SPEAKER_06 2:45

Hello, everybody. I am Caitlin, and I am probably the one that you don't like to listen to on 1.5 speed because I've tried to do that with Nick's podcasts, and oh boy, I'm pretty fast regularly. So don't 1.5 speed me or you will miss stuff because I tend to go way too fast, and I apologize for that. Generally, I've been on rock in retrospect for the artists that I am the most passionate about. So I've done Depeche Mode with Nick, I've done Darren Hayes from Savage Garden, I've done a couple of the movie podcast ones where we've talked about things like a goofy movie and the Eminem Stans movie. So it's always a blast to be on here, and I'm super psyched to talk about Talking Heads because that's kind of kind of one of the bands that I evolved into really enjoying more as an adult. Like I always kind of liked them as a kid, but just started to appreciate them more as an adult and didn't see stop making sense until probably I want to say like three years ago or so. So I've seen it before, but pretty recently. So I did re-watch it, but I yeah, it's still pretty fresh for me. So excited to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Great. Yeah, I'm so glad to talk to you all about Stop Making Sense, which, like Darren said, is arguably considered the greatest concert film of all time. If it's not that, it's the last waltz, which are my two favorite concert films. And then if we're gonna throw it a third one, it's the Pesh Mode 101. Yes, so good. So good.

SPEAKER_06 4:06

Yes, we still have to do that one.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

I'm gonna wait for the anniversary, I think, when it gets closer to the Rose Bowl anniversary. Yeah, definitely do that one. Oh, I've seen it way too many times. But thank you all so much. So, yeah, uh Caitlin, while we were at it too, talk about A24 Carat Gold.

SPEAKER_06 4:25

Yeah, so that's our I want to say sister podcast, but not really. It's kind of like its own thing. So, yes, A24 Carat Gold is a podcast that the four of us uh co-host. And what we essentially do is we will pick a well, we let the wheel decide an A24 movie for us that we will then watch, which uh up to this point, the majority of movies the wheel has picked we have not seen or even heard of. So that's been an interesting ride. And then we evaluate them on a very detailed set of criteria that Darren runs down at the end of the episode to basically mathematically figure out whether or not it is an A24 carat gold essential, which is basically the kind of list you would make if somebody's never heard of A24 and you're like, okay, these are the movies that you must watch to get a good idea of what A24 is all about. So far, we only have one A24 Essential, but keep listening and eventually we gotta hit on another one, right? Like, there's hundreds of movies, we'll get there.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

You know, it it's gonna be an interesting time to see which is the next one that we collectively agree on.

SPEAKER_06 5:28

Um we'll get there.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah, we'll we'll definitely get there. And we've done about 10 episodes so far because on that show, just for my listeners that might or might not know this, we release episodes usually on the 24th of each month. So that's gonna be the episodes that are the deep dives into a specific film from the A24 catalog. Like Caitlin was saying, the wheel speaks and it spits out a name, and that's what we watch. So it's a good time. And then we also release episodes on the 12th when we get a chance, just like this episode. We're gonna release it on the 12th in case we have like bonus content or anything we want to give to our listeners in between our uh deep dives into the movies. Uh, but we're gonna be talking about Stop Making Sense because it was acquired by A24 in 2023. So that's the connection that we're using to not only promote our podcast, A24 Carat Gold, but also spotlight a movie that would make sense to cover on my show because we talk about music. So I'm gonna give a little bit of context on the production history and the release and legacy of Stop Making Sense. So this is where I'm gonna be Amanda, who does all this on A24 Carat Gold, and she could judge me however she wants on this, but we're gonna let it go and uh we're I'm gonna talk about the history of Stop Making Sense. So by the early 1980s, both Jonathan Demy and the Talkin' Heads were at their creative peaks. They were building reputations in two different worlds. So Jonathan Demi became one of Hollywood's most distinctive young directors. He was in his late 30s, early 40s when he was making Stop Making Sense. Meanwhile, the Talking Heads evolved from New York's downtown punk scene in the mid-70s. So they're part of the CBGB scene that were, you know, the likes of the Ramones, Television, and Blondie came out of. And they became one of the most influential and innovative bands at that time. When they both worked on Stop Making Scent, this was kind of like their moment where they both flourished creatively. And I think just for context, I just want to kind of go through both of their careers, like where they were in 1983 when they were making this film. So before Demi made this film, like I said, he was establishing himself as a filmmaker who had an affinity for music and musicians. So, but I don't know if you guys noticed, but he started his career making low-budget films for Roger Corman, who did a lot of exploitative films in the 60s and 70s. So, and then he made an Oscar-win-in film called Melvin and Howard. Uh, Mary Seenberge won an Oscar for that movie for Best Supported Actress. And then he also did the movie Swing Shift that was Goldie Hahn and Kurt Russell in 1984. His films are often celebrated for featuring ordinary people and I don't want to say abnormalities, but kind of like off-beat characters is really what he's known for with his films. But at the same time, when he was also making narrative films, he also had a deep appreciation for live music. He made concert films and documentaries for the likes of, and this is before and after Stop Making Sense, like Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Kenny Chesney, who we covered on the show at one point last year, and Bruce Springsteen, we also did. Uh, and Justin Timberlake. That was actually one of his last productions, was a concert film for Justin Tibberlake. And he made a lot of music videos throughout his career too. So Stop Making Sense was essentially his crown and achievement as a director for making live musical performances. And a few years after this, he would become a really big deal. So one of my favorite films from him is Something Wild, which is from 1986. He also did Married to the Mob. He won an Oscar, of course, for The Silence of the Lambs, a movie that you probably all have heard of. Philadelphia, among other films, he became a really big deal in Hollywood. And he became one of these versatile, uh quirky directors that could be both making mainstream films and also independent films, and no one really battened an eye. At the same time that Jonathan Damy was establishing himself in Hollywood at American Filmmaking, the Talkin' Heads were at their commercial peak. So I think something to understand about this film is that the Talkin' Heads, we think of retrospectively like, oh, they were one of the biggest bands. They were like more of a critic's favorite. So really, they didn't become a big deal till 83 with the release of Burden Down the House, which was their first top 10 hit. And um, just a little bit about the Talkin' Heads. Like I said, they were formed in 1975 in New York City. The members are David Byrne, Tina Waysmouth, uh, Chris France, and Jerry Harrison. Over six albums, they really reinvented themselves with each album and they blended styles like punk, funk, art rock, electronic music, and even world music. So you hear that especially in this film, the influence of world music. Um, and in 1983, their album, Speaking in Tongues, became their biggest commercially successful album. It went to number 15 on the charts, which you gotta remember that was a competitive time, 83 in music. So even if you only reach 15, that's still a big number. And Burn It Down the House became a top 10 hit, peaking at number nine. To support that album, they went on this expansive tour and they had a nine-piece tour ensemble, and they had uh keyboardist, guitarist, percussionist, backend vocalist, and it really helped give it this um rhythmic complexity and energy that really exemplified their status as a great live band, which is what we capture here in Stop Making Sense. And just a little bit about the film itself that it was shot over three nights in Hollywood in Los Angeles in 1983, in December that year. And it was filmed during the Speak in Tongues tour. And what's really interesting about this film is just how it's very simple, but it's also very complex, like an oxymoron in so many ways. And we'll talk so much more about what you guys noticed about the film and why it was so revolutionary. But it was one of those films that people saw and they just kind of clamored to when they saw it. And I think the one thing I will say before we get into the discussion of film is that I think rather than documents and the concert itself, Demi really created what many consider one of the first really truly cinematic concert films of rock music. It just captured it so well. And uh, this was released in October 1984. It was made for about $1.2 million. It became really one of the most successful concert films ever released. I'll ask our host in a second about how many times they've seen the movie or if they've seen it in theaters. But I remember when I bought this movie about 15 years ago, I bought it at Amazon and I totally forgot that I had a copy until we were doing this episode. I'm like, I think I have a copy of this somewhere because you can really buy the DVD. It was largely out of print and this and that. So I don't know if it was the music or whatever. But long story short, A24 uh acquired the rights to this film in 2023, and they made a big deal about it because you know they just came out of winning Oscars for you know everything everywhere all at once and The Whale. And this was like, oh, we got like probably the best concert film ever made. So they restored the film, they worked with the Talking Heads, and Jonathan Demi died about 10 years before they re-released the films. He uh couldn't obviously supervise it, but there were a lot of people that were kind of trying to work with it to get it back to its luster, give it a 4K upgrade. And it actually grossed, I don't know if you guys know, it's $10 million alone just in the US, which is really remarkable for a re-released film, and it made another $4 million worldwide. So this was a really big success. And something else I want to point out too, just about the critical claim for this film, Pauline Cale, who's one of the most famous film critics of all time, she called this movie, quote, close to perfection. And Roger Reaper said, quote, it's infectious energy and Burns' magnetic stage presence really comes through. And I think that that's really important here is that this film has literally a hundred percent score on Ron Tavato. So it's one of the very few films to have that. And uh they made a big deal when this was uh Restoration came out in uh 2023 at the Toronto International Film Festival, and it got all the re-releases for the the live album for the soundtrack. I feel like this really rejuvenated the band in so many ways. Uh, so that's why we're talking about the film tonight. And in 2021, even before this was acquired by 2024, it was actually added for preservation by the US National Film Registry through the Library of Congress as culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant. And it's just been a film that really, I mean, it's kind of cross-generational at this point. People are really gravitating towards this movie. Uh, so that's a little bit about Stop Making Sense and all that sort of stuff. But I'm gonna ask our co-hosts if this was their first time watching this film. And if you've seen the film, how many times have you seen it and if you've seen it in theater? So we'll start with Amanda.

SPEAKER_04 14:55

So this was my first first watch of this. I must admit, I haven't watched as many concert films as probably there are brilliant ones out there. Yeah, this was my first time watch, and very surprised how just energetic and and incredible it is, and really makes you feel like you're you're there essentially. So it it was um it was a good time watching it on Amazon. So great.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Uh thank you, Amantha.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Uh Darren, this isn't the first time that I've seen this. Um, I don't know exactly how many times. I know that I've seen it at least three times. The first time was so long ago it might have been a VHS, but maybe DVD. Um then the second time I saw it at uh the state theater. Uh it wasn't the A24 uh 4K, but they actually had the original version of the film and they were presenting it in uh their their their theater with its featuretaking audio system. Um and they were showing it as part of a a music series, a concert, a music uh film series that also included The Last Walt and several other um all-time classic movies or movies about music or concert films. And then the third time I watched it, I rented it on Amazon Prime because as it turns out, I apparently I don't own it on Blu-ray or DVD, which is kind of surprising.

SPEAKER_06 16:08

Yeah, so this was the second time I watched it. The first time I watched it, I think I just was I was crossing things off my list of just like, you know, I'm going through my Letterboxd watch list and like, what do I feel like watching? Like right now, it's like a you know a blind spot in my watch history, and I actually paid to rent it on Amazon, I believe. And then that was shortly before the whole A24 acquiring it, taking it over came out. So I was like, I kind of wanted to see it in the theater, but I also had like just watched it. So I was like, eh, maybe, maybe. And then by the time I was like trying to figure it out, it was already at a theater. So I was like, all right, I guess not. And then I went through like a rash of, oh my God, I love so many musicals and so many concerts. I need to own physical copies of all of them. So recently I actually picked up the Blu-ray of it, and that's what I watched for this. And I was actually really glad I got it on Blu-ray because I don't know if it's you know the way they make TVs nowadays, or because I use like the PlayStation to watch things on, but trying to watch a DVD, like the way it's everything's made now, you can't even really hear it. Like we tried to watch Lord of the Rings, and I'm like, I can't even make out what they're saying, but like Blu-rays, you still can make out what they're saying, and it sounds really good. So thankfully, I was glad it was on Blu-ray because the sound was really crisp. I think if I had it on DVD, I would have been disappointed with how not great it sounded. So it was a good way to revisit it.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Very cool, Caitlin. I've seen this movie at least five or six times. I owned a copy through Amazon, and I've I watched it probably for the first time, I want to say when I was in high school, when I was starting to discover the Talking Heads, because I think I knew about the Talking Heads really through the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame when they would have those clip shows, and they were adapted first ballot in 2002, and that was the last time that they reunited as a band so far, uh, since their breakup in 91. And I remember liking the film because my dad liked the band, and then I've seen it several times since then. And I'll tell you guys a really funny story before we get into talk about the film. I remember in I guess it was the summer of fall, and I'm thinking fall of 2023, I wanted to see it in IMAX because A24 made a big deal about showing the film in IMAX format. And my IMAX theater in my town, which was like five months from me, broke. And I think it was the weekend of some blockbuster. So it was like a huge craziness in terms of business, the you know, because they would have made so much money. So I said to myself after the movie club we host, I gotta go to Dallas to go see this movie, specifically on uh the IMAX screen, and I absolutely did. And then I think I went to go see a show or whatever, so it was a crazy day in Dallas. But yeah, so I got to see this in IMAX uh on the big screen.

SPEAKER_06 18:54

I feel like we all, maybe not all of us, but most of us in this group have had incidents where the IMAX screen breaks. Like that just happened to us for Mandalorian and Grogu. There were so many people waiting outside for vouchers for a free movie, which I still have, I gotta use them. But yeah, I was like the IMAX screen broke on like Star Wars weekend. It's so weird how often that happens.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Grogu is just too cute that he literally breaks the screen. It's earth chattering.

SPEAKER_07 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

It was one of my dreams to see this movie on the big screen. And I thought to myself, when are they gonna do this again? Or when am I gonna have the opportunity? I know that there's probably more opportunities now, but at that time I just said YOLO and went to drive to Dallas. So yeah, that's my story of seeing that movie. Uh now let's talk about the movie itself. So let's just start with the opener, which is Psycho Killer, and then we'll kind of progress from there. So does anyone have any thoughts on that uh particular performance?

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Absolutely the best way to start this film, the way that uh David Byrne puts the entire performance together as a performance art piece as well as a concert where you start out with one guy standing on stage with a with a with a guitar and he's got a boom box and he plays the song and sings one of their best songs. And then as the progresses from there just to building and building and building, adding more elements, bringing more people out, more pieces, more instruments. I think that is a fantastic way to construct this uh set for this concert. I love the song, obviously.

SPEAKER_06 20:32

I actually usually remember that even better than the big suit. Like I remember when I first put this on, I was so impressed with just both the diversity of the band and the diversity of the instruments in the band, and just how he shows you how like basically physically how a song is put together. It was just it was mesmerizing and just I've never seen anything like it. Just you're literally building a song in front of the audience. It was absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

I 100% agree. And I think just uh using it to just start on him in particular really just pulls your focus that he's uh this main person within the band. And even though I think that's probably he was the biggest draw for it. Uh he doesn't really leave the stage that much. So I think to just start with him and have you know the camera just like pan up his leg after he puts this radio down on the ground is pretty great. And it just it just brings your focus to him completely. My eyes just kind of never left him, even when he was off the stage. I was like, where is he? When is he coming back?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

So I I think what's unique about it, if we think about this compared to other concert films, is that there's really no context given to the concert that we're about to watch. There's no intro, no behind the scenes frame in within the band, like a camaraderie like one, two, three, we're gonna deliver a phenomenal concert. And I think that's actually what makes it interesting that the stage is almost the universe, it's the canvas that we're about to watch and uh be absorbed into. And I think what's Also, what makes it so effective? It's this idea of like vulnerability and control. Because when we see David Byrne go on stage, psycho killer, he looks awkward, but he also looks composed. It's really weird because he's alone, but he's not really isolated because we see people in the audience very faintly, but there's really just nothing behind him. It's almost like this empty space, like a blank canvas that starts off the film. And I think also what's interesting is that Psycho Killer, which was one of their most well-known songs at the time, is also performed in a way that is so different from the record, because the record is so production heavy.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

They wanted to capture fully kind of what the band was doing, as opposed to doing like the best of audience shots and and things like that. So I thought it was interesting. You don't really see much of the crowd throughout this entire thing until the end, at least.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Yeah, the focus is entirely on the band. And I think the the choice of song, Psycho Killer, is perfect because it's a perfect way to start things out because it was their first big hit, and it's uh just it kind of like sets the tone because you see something that is weird and artistic and a little off, that is a great way to grab the audience's attention, especially in such a stripped-down um version of the song.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

I also love BC the crew so much just coming in and out of the stage space and even having them come out at the end. I know in musicals, things like that, they normally point to the pit and point to the people kind of in the in the outer area, but to just have them come back on and really have be able to take about for all this incredible work that they did, even the stuff that you didn't see. Um, but I think it was a great choice to have them, the crew kind of coming in and out in and out of the stage at different points. So there are being like there are people who help put this whole thing together and not just the band.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

It's such a small production, right? There's only maybe 10 people at the most on that stage, but they fill up it with so much energy and excitement and uh passion. And I think that's what really comes out here. And I think what you also mentioned, Amanda, is what I think helped make this film also kind of unique was that it really didn't show any shots really of the audience. And when we do see the audience, it's very faded or it's saturated in the just darkness, and so because the emphasis is on the band, which is really different from something like Woodstock, for example, or even The Last Waltz, where you're seeing constant shots of the audience, like that affirmation of the concert going experience. And that's something that Stoppy Konset's is known for.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

It's almost less of a concert and more of a Broadway play in the way it's presented, in that the audience is present and you can hear the audience in the background, but the audience isn't a feature. Right.

SPEAKER_06 25:04

Plus, too, I was thinking it was also brilliant to start with Psycho Killer because it's such a simple arrangement. It's just basically guitar and hymn for most of the song. Like, yeah, it definitely breaks down at some points into you know drums and all that. He probably had to go through their, you know, songs up to that point and be like, okay, what's the one that's the most simplistic that I can start with, like just me in a boombox and then slowly in like bass and drums and blah. So yeah, that definitely was purposeful and brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

I think it was always gonna be stepmaking or um psychokiller as the first song. I think that he recognizes that that's how you start a concert like this. I think that's I I don't know that there were any other options for him.

SPEAKER_06 25:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

And then we see with Psycho Killer David Byrne, of course, on stage by himself. But it's interesting when they start to get to heaven, or I believe that's the second song is heaven, you start to see the other band members start to come in, and then the other people that are in the the in the back end band, like the percussionist and the keyboardists, the backup singers who are basically doing a workout video the entire time. Holy mess!

SPEAKER_04 26:08

He basically is too though.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Like I think Oh, yeah, he's like running in place in one of the songs.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

He's like he does laps around the stage. Yes, he does, and it's just I think what I I love about that is not only his energy, but I also I just love that so many people, and I feel like musicians in particular now are really worried about pretending to be very, you know, self-important and very serious. And I just love that he is this brilliant musician, and all these people are brilliant, but they don't take themselves super seriously, and they're like, We're just gonna do physically whatever we feel like doing that brings the energy of the song. And I think everybody just looks like they're having so much fun and also sweaty, like you see the sweat pouring off of people's faces and just out of breath, but they all just look like they're having an amazing time, which I think is really translates through to even watching it at home.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

So some of them are wearing 20 pounds of suit.

SPEAKER_05 27:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

It's also their their outfits are very simple, right? There's nothing flashy, it's very uh muted colors. It's either beige or it's a black or a gray or but it's very not flashy, is what my point is.

SPEAKER_06 27:20

I actually wrote that in my notes. I think that they did that on purpose so that the music and the art of the well, there's not really the art of the set, but kind of to later, like the lighting and stuff, but really the music. Like it it puts a focus on the art itself, and it's like we don't want the attention for being like the artists and whatever, we don't have to wear sequins or you know, fancy suits, well, you know, fancy or identical outfits. Yes, yes, identical outfits. But yeah, I I really do think that that was brilliant too, is just putting the focus on the sounds that they are making and not necessarily like the people that are making the sounds. It's just it's very it feels very like MoMA to me. It's just that kind of like upper echelon artsy feeling, and that's what I got from that choice.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Oh yeah, for sure. Um what songs stuck out to you guys, like the performances besides Psycho Killer Heaven?

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Burning Down the House was uh, you know, it's their biggest hit, and they really really all came together as like all the different elements were coming together, and then when Slippery People and Burning Down the House came up, then it was just kind of like all right, the the concert is fully on now, all the elements are in place, and it's all going at full gear, yeah. Like that was a peak.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Um let's just talk about Bird Down the House, just like on that one for a sec. Um, did you, Amanda or Caitlin, have thoughts on Burn Down the House?

SPEAKER_06 28:38

I mean, it's epic, it's one of their best songs. So yeah, and then just when it starts, you know, with just when you know that first few notes is just a chills. You could feel like it's feels like it's like a musical version of like licking flames, kinda. And I feel like I just get chills in the same rhythm as the licking flames of the guitar. It's so brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

I I think with that, it's sort of like Darren was saying, in terms of it feels similar to like a first payoff of the film, right? It's we got the band together, they got through a few songs maybe we had or had not heard of yet, and then we got the hit song, the one that came right when uh this was uh first released, and uh it just sort of had this energy that I think the film is known for. And I think what's amazing about that song, too, is uh I don't know if you guys know this, it was a fala cutie riff that he just discarded, and then it became uh ironically the Talking Heads' breakout song, commercially speaking.

SPEAKER_06 29:42

Um incredibly tracks for David Byrne. Like that is on brand.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

You can't listen to the song without thinking that it's so legendary now. But it it's weird how that happens sometimes. But what I was getting at too is that it's also this idea of the world music influence, which you see so clearly in the film. And we see it in other places in the film, of course, but I feel like in that moment you you're thinking, oh wow, this you're getting some real African music vibes here. If you didn't really pick that up from the record itself, you definitely get it in the live concert performance. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

Oh yeah, yeah, you get more of that too in Take Me to the River with kind of that repeating chorus, and you really you also really get to hear the background vocalists, I think, so fully in that song.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Oh, yeah. That's yeah, absolutely. And that is uh is a little bit different than the original recorded version of Take Me to the River. They put a lot more production and make it much more of a like a gospel choir type of thing. So it's much closer to Al Green's original than uh the original single. So I thought that that was a great touch.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

And I think what's interesting is that when they remade that initially, it was only three or four years after Al Green's version, but they made it so uh unique. And I always think of it like a reinterpretation of it because on its own it's it's still a great song.

SPEAKER_06 31:07

Um I mean, too, shout out to Annie Lacks, she did a great job with it too.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

So yeah, that definitely. And taking to the river and also bird that house, those background singers, uh oh man, incredible. Incredible. So good. They're doing a workout or that one, like they're just like jumping up and down with it. I mean skipping, running.

SPEAKER_06 31:32

Yeah, that that goes on for so long, and like you could just keep listening so that it doesn't get old. It's like, yeah, just keep singing it over and over again.

SPEAKER_05 31:41

Like you can be here all night, I'm fine with it. I'm sure everybody in the audience is also fine with it.

SPEAKER_06 31:47

Just such a vibe. It's like, yeah, I could do this for like 10 minutes straight. Go, go on.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Uh yeah, it was hypnotic to say the least. I just love when they're just shaking their heads or going up and down. I'm getting exhausted just watching them.

SPEAKER_04 32:01

This the sweat. I just I can't get over it how close the it but and that was the thing too, I with with the cinematography. And I and I know the cinematographer has done he did like the original Blade Runner and and things like that. Um, but I think just the way it was shot, it it felt even though it's such a big space, it felt very intimate at the same time. You could see all these various kind of nooks and crannies and the other things that were happening on the stage. And like I said, I don't think I've ever thought to look that closely at an artist while they're performing, but just to see like the perspiration dripping down their face. You can you can tell that it's just you know, it's it's such an it feels very intimate, but at the same time, it's like so large scale.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Oh, for sure. The cinematography is so good because uh the performer first, right? Yeah, yep, and it's really uh drawn your attention to the musicians. Um that actually leads me, Amanda. We'll go back to the songs a second, but it kind of leads to cinematography. I think what makes this movie work so well is that there are long takes, there's very minimal editing that's happening here because I feel like in this era, especially with MTV, there's the rapid jump cuts and cuts, and you just get a headache after a while from it. This one, I would argue, is so different just because it's pretty seamless, but there really isn't that much edit-in between the songs, which is pretty unheard of at that time.

SPEAKER_06 33:29

My let my letterbox review, I wrote The Secret to Losing 30 pounds in 30 days is putting on this film every night and doing everything that David Byrne does.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

Yeah, it was incredible. And and Demi actually said in an interview, he was saying the use of extended shots instead of quick cuts, he says, is uh is the result of my belief that there is great power available by holding on any extended terrific moment and letting the viewer become more deeply involved in the performance at hand instead of constantly interrupting the flow with unneeded cuts. And they also had a great, you know, cinematographer, Jordan Cronenwealth, who was able to, you know, actually create this, capture a lot of the things that um maybe they weren't able to do um kind of in the in the other shows and things like that over these like three days.

SPEAKER_06 34:15

It always amazes me when they film it over three days or over two days, because it always looks so seamless that you think you're watching the same night and you're not, and it that's always fascinating when they get that right.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Well, you gotta figure it's the same stage show every night. It's something that is this choreographed and this uh coordinated. They they they're definitely doing this at like every show. So it doesn't surprise me. They probably have the same costumes or multiple sets of the same costumes for that purpose.

SPEAKER_07 34:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

And this was during the uh that tour for for that album. So it so it kind of makes sense that they would continuously have the same sets, the same costumes for the uh Speaking in Tongues tour. What other songs stuck out to you guys?

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Uh Girlfriend Is Better definitely stood out to me. Uh, even though it's not one of their biggest hits, it's the iconic song where he's wearing the gigantic suit, and it's where the the title of the film Stop Making Sense actually comes from. Uh it's one of my favorite Talking Head songs, and it's just kind of the the centerpiece of the second half of the movie.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

We watched before we recorded because uh one of our co-hosts never saw it. The Kirpet the Frog as David Byrne on the Moppets. Oh, people if you listeners, stop what you're doing in Credible. You will love it.

SPEAKER_06 35:30

They made him a big suit and gives me joy.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

I have a quote on the big suit too that he David Byrne told Time magazine because he said he was in Japan between tours and checking out traditional Japanese theater and he was wondering what to wear. And a fashion designer friend said, Well, David, everything's bigger on stage. He was referring to gestures and all that, but I applied the idea to a businessman suit.

SPEAKER_05 35:53

So that is how the suit came to be, and it's incredible, and the pants are also incredible because even when he takes the jacket off, the pants are just as big.

SPEAKER_06 36:04

How they stay up with the way he moves, like is beyond me. Like there must be hidden suspenders or something. Architectural secrets, yes, movie magic.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

But you know what's like really fascinating though about the suit? Because if you saw it out of context, you would think it's more comedical or almost like it's a joke, but it's really not in the context of the film. It's more the identity of David Bird, and it's very theatrical and over the top, and it's sort of just played into this larger-than-life character that he created on stage. And I I think that is part of what makes it stand out so much because he's buying into it. It's not like he's doing a Saturday night live-esque sketch, you know. So I think that that's really an important distinction. Really hard to pull off, by the way, that ballads, because you could come across like really stupid or uh like a joke, but he does it so well. And also it shows that they're more playful, too. And I think that would also help make think, make even if we think more broadly about the talk in heads and their appeal, is that I think that their music is very sarantic, but it's also very playful, it's very intelligent. It's doing a lot of interesting things that helped, I think, keep it uh relevant, but not even just from people who were there when the band was around, but even the current generations that have latched onto it.

SPEAKER_04 37:32

Yeah, they're not afraid to like riff and just kind of say nonsense in the middle of their songs, and it still fits. And yeah, every time I every time they do it, I feel like there's a different kind of element or different thing that they add to it. So they're always kind of reinventing everything.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Absolutely. One song that I like is uh Life Through More Time, uh, which uh I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on this one.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

I think it translated perfectly to the set, uh just the amazing killer chorus um and running in place. Kind of works with the lyrics of the song, and also I did uh in my notes I had that the uh uh Bernie Warrell, the uh keyboard, the guest keyboarder for the tour on this song, and he is fantastic on this one in particular.

SPEAKER_04 38:17

Yeah, each band member kind of got their own sandout, which was great because there's so many people that you that sometimes maybe they can get lost a little bit. So I appreciated kind of the camera focus on every single person, and every person got kind of a solo moment at some point.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Yeah, for sure. Uh and I think I captured a lot of what we were talking about, this kinetic energy and um how I think well, it's like not just this song, so really the majority of songs is how David Burns's body's also part of the choreography and the show as well. It it's kind of hard to explain.

SPEAKER_06 38:52

Yeah, he kind of becomes the art, really.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

It's insane. The first time I watched this, I'm thinking, what is wrong with this guy?

SPEAKER_04 39:00

The energy is just crazy because I I think I'm used to seeing him now. He's done a lot of guest spots with Olivia Rodrigo in the last kind of couple years, and he still has uh you know a great voice and everything like that. But I think I'm more used to him more muted just because of the sheer kind of volume of her performances. But with this, I was just really, really surprised with the energy and just how long he could sustain it. Like I said, I think he was only off stage for maybe one or two songs from some of the side. So incredible that he was he was the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

He did he did have a secret weapon in his arsenal for maintaining his energy under on this uh kind of tour. Um usually it's referred to as uh something Colombian.

SPEAKER_05 39:46

Um that was why they were sweating so much.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Well, I well that's why they were able to stay uh keep maintaining energy.

SPEAKER_06 39:59

Yeah, even now he like rides a bike everywhere in the city. He doesn't have a car. I mean, like a lot of people don't have a car in the city, but he's still pretty active for being, you know, in his older years, so he's still got that energy.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Very true. David Byrne is still uh doing his thing, and he still looks great for his age. Um for sure. Um, and you mentioned the band that we'll just kind of get into it. They have Genius of Love, which was the Tom Tom Club song, which I think is also interesting because that was released in '81, and that was, of course, the offshoot of the band because Tina Waysmouth and Chris France, they were in that band. That is definitely a very recognizable song from the 80s, so it kind of helped add to the talking heads lore in so many ways.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

One of the most sampled songs of all time.

SPEAKER_06 40:51

I was gonna say a lot of people now know it more as like Mariah Carey's uh what was it, Dream? No, not Dreamover. What was it?

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Fantasy.

SPEAKER_06 40:59

Fantasy, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Yes, yeah, but the riff is. Yeah, but it's been sampled in like literally dozens and hundreds of songs.

SPEAKER_06 41:06

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

That's a very catchy.

SPEAKER_07 41:08

They love that riff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

Even when it came out, like Grandmaster, Flash, and the Furious V, they've sampled it on one of their songs. And I I mean, it was like Derek said, one of the most widely sampled and biggest dance songs of not just the 80s of all time. And what's really funny is that really the song is paying homage to black artists, right? So it's paying homage to James Brown, Smokey Robinson, George Clinton, Sly the Family Stone, among other people. But I I like that moment in the film because it gives David, of course, a second to to breathe. Because my god, that man is just I don't know if he sweated up a storm, but he's offstage on an oxygen tank. He needs he just needs a second to to breathe. Yeah, he needs to roll a bunch of cold packs in the sea. Crash paddles.

SPEAKER_06 41:58

Whatever they had back in the day that was our version of Yeti's like a sort of music water bottle.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

But at least they have a song that people would know, so it's not like a bathroom break song either.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

That's true. Yeah, I think that was the only thing I appreciate that they didn't have behind-the-scenes stuff and and commentary and things like that. But I think for me, I'm I tend to only know the talking head, so no, I didn't really know anything about a lot of the kind of the more side projects and other things that they had. So I wish we there had been a little bit of like vamping to kind of get up to that. So I would so uh to me, I would kind of know a bit more about you know what what those kind of areas were because I think that was there was one there, and then maybe there was one other one that they did in the film.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

So which one are you thinking? I think she's thinking of the one with the drums where he's doing a drum solo for a couple minutes, and again, it's just for David Bird just to breathe for a second.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Right, and costume changes and whatnot.

SPEAKER_06 42:59

Actually, wasn't that right before the big suit? I feel like it was. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

I think it was before the big suit. Yeah, so for Chris Francis did the drums. Yeah, that's the only moment that fell above okay. Like, even when I had to go to the bathroom to the IMAX break, I'm like, okay, we're good here for a couple minutes.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

Yeah. Well, the thing about um, you know, the featuring the Tom Tong Club song is they know filming in 1983 for an 84 release, is that you really wouldn't have to explain what that song was because it was like a top 10 hit, so it was huge and everywhere. I mean, they did explain it's not like it's time for the Tom Tom Club, which explains why there's a non-talking hit song in in the performance.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

So at backstage, David Byrne punched a wall. I'm kidding, because you know, he he's such an ego, apparently, with the members of the band. Um I was reading about that. Oh Amanda, the lore that you have no idea about. Uh yeah. Let's just say they're all alive and they refuse to reunite. That's all I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

And they reunited for their rock call induction, and it was basically considered a modern miracle.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

And it was really as a thank you to Seymour Stein, who was one of the founders and sat on the committee, and he helped, of course, sign the talking heads to Sire Records in uh 76. So that was the same year that the Ramones got in, who gave Shut that um that's a whole story in itself. Uh we can go over.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

Was another class with Tom Penny as well?

SPEAKER_07 44:30

Man.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

Yeah, it was it was a wonderful class that year. Um, but Kaylin, I just want to make sure because they both said their favorite songs of the film so far. Was there any songs that we haven't mentioned that you particularly enjoyed?

SPEAKER_06 44:45

It's gonna be a spoiler though for my list. That's why I haven't said anything. It's my all-time favorite talking head song, and we haven't said it yet. So I haven't said it yet.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

We'll do the Wayne Swirl thing that do-doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo.

SPEAKER_06 45:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

Swamp, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 45:03

No, it's do you want me to say it now or do you want me to wait?

SPEAKER_02 45:06

You you go, girl. We want to know. We we you're we're gonna keep it. I'm really curious now.

SPEAKER_06 45:11

Yeah, okay. Well, ever since so the reason why it is my favorite is because when I was a kid, my mom was watching Wall Street, and then the credits come on at the end of the movie, and I was like, This is so weird, and I feel like I'm having an out-of-body experience. What is this? And it was this must be the place. My oldest. Yeah, I was I love that song so much. Like it makes me so another place, and it makes it makes me want to cry because it's just so simple and beautiful, and the lyrics are so beautiful, and the lamp on stage just makes it just feels like you're at home. This is where I need to be. I don't care, like, I don't care if he's talking about the stage, whatever, doesn't matter. The song is home, and it's oh god, that's my all-time favorite.

SPEAKER_04 45:54

It's where he does laps too, around the scene. Yeah, with the lamp, with the and the yeah, the dancing with the lamb. Yeah, perfectly.

SPEAKER_06 46:03

Oh, that's that's uh that touches something in me that just hits my soul. I love that song so much.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

It's really become a song that really has endured, I think, almost as much as any talking head song. Because even when they read it, the Rolling Stone 500 Best Songs list, I don't even think it was on at one point up until then, but it was like in the high hundreds, which is really a really high ranking for that song. I mean, maybe it's just me, but I mean it was a hit, but it wasn't that big of it. It wasn't once in a lifetime iconic or burning down the house or psycho killer, or I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it has really become one of their most acclaimed and enduring songs somehow.

SPEAKER_06 46:47

No, it's just so pretty. It's like the the song is pretty and the lyrics are pretty. It's just it's pretty. It really is a home song. I feel like I'm home when I listen to it. Actually, when I moved, I had it on in the car because I was going from one home to the other. It's just, it's so, it's so pretty.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

It is. And that lamp, oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 47:06

I know the lamp makes it, man. Like if you were just performing that on stage, like, yeah, well, I've seen him perform on stage, it's nice, but like you need the lamp.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

It reminds me of Lumiere from Beauty of the Beast, where he's dancing with the lamp. I don't know why that always gives me Beauty of the Beast vibes, but you know, that's just me.

SPEAKER_06 47:25

But you know, it has to be the big lamp with the big lamp shade. It can't just be like some little dinky lamp.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

Tall lamp, tall lamp so he can dance with it perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Yes, just a little bit taller than David. Yes, not too much taller, but uh because that would just be weird.

SPEAKER_06 47:41

We already have the suit, we don't need two weird things.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Like I think that's also I'm glad you mentioned it now, Kaelin. And we could, of course, repeat it later on for the mixtape question. I think that's actually among the most important songs in the film because it's kind of the heart, the tenderness of the film. I would argue at the emotional center of it, because Bird's doing all these crazy dance moves, he's running, he's doing a workout video, essentially, like we said earlier. And that's what he's taking a little bit of a breather here, and he's just with a lamp, and the like you said, the simplicity actually helps elevate it, I think.

SPEAKER_06 48:17

I think that's what I connected to it as a kid too, because like when I was a kid, the videos were on MTV all the time for once in a lifetime and burning down the house. And I was like, this band is weird and funky, and then they release this song that's just so tendered and pure and just soulful, and it's just like, wow, they actually they they have that other side of them that they're not just all about like you know, crazy MoMA level art. It's there's the other side that you know when you like listen to a band and like they have really great pop songs, but then they have really great ballads and it just makes for a more well-rounded band, that always just makes me appreciate and respect them more. And this song was that song for me.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

So a fun fact about that, Kaylin, is that when that single was a release, because it was the second single off of Speaking in Tongues, that was when they made this movie. So that's when it was released as a single.

SPEAKER_06 49:01

Yeah, so that's probably why it was even in the concert because maybe they wouldn't have even included it if it wasn't fresh, you know.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

I mean, the third single was in there too, Swamp, which is a good song. I mean, they really don't have any bad songs, but uh it's just it it's some of the you're just thinking, okay, they're getting some deep tracks into here. Um I don't think we talked about once in a lifetime that much. Do you guys have thoughts on once in a lifetime in in this context?

SPEAKER_06 49:25

Love it so much. I quote I quote that song every day, pretty much, in my normal life. It's it's part of my vernacular, like yeah, so good. And yeah, live performance flawless, absolutely flawless.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

It it's such a song about existential crisis, and it it it's again this idea of just David Burden just doing his thing, moving up and down all around. I almost did the hokey pokey for a second.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

Um doing the jazzer sides, he's doing the running man and team, some skipping.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

I don't know why that song. I always think of him for slapping himself too, because he's wearing the glasses at this point, he's just like slapping himself. And what is happening here?

SPEAKER_06 50:08

I use songs so much in daily life. Like, I'll go to grab a pen and be like, that's not my beautiful pen. Like, I've I all the time. It is just every all the time I use that song in my life.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Um yeah. Any other songs that stuck out to you guys that we haven't really talked about yet?

SPEAKER_03 50:26

Slippery People was a highlight of uh the movie, the performance was fantastic. Uh it's not usually one of my favorite people or favorite songs uh from Talking Heads, but uh it was really a highlight of the film.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Yeah, uh Slippery People, uh more of a deeper track. Um and I think what made it interesting was that it kind of showed this funkiness like we were mentioning earlier.

SPEAKER_06 50:48

And probably one of my favorites. So I was glad that was in there.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

Yeah, I think just kind of the close-up shots. I think there's like a close-up shot of burn, like the neck of Burns like guitar during that song that I thought was really cool, and all the lighting in general in the film is always cool. And it sometimes correlates to the songs, sometimes just looks like people are giant shadows on the wall. So I think that the lighting was really good during that one too.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

Yep. Yeah, definitely. For me, I think also Cities, which was restored for the 2023 cut. I don't even know offhand, I think I had to watch it on YouTube, uh, because I don't know if it was in the film I watched earlier today. Uh, but I wanted to make sure I watched it because I know some of the songs they didn't have in a lot of the cuts, but that was also one of my favorite talking head songs. It's more of a deeper cut. It kind of is the bridge that leads to Burden Down the House, so it kind of is like the common before the storm.

SPEAKER_03 51:44

Yeah, there's like three songs that were edited out but were restored in like uh later version.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

So yeah. Big business was one because that was the one right after Once in a Lifetime. It was the one between Once in a Lifetime and the Genius of Love TomTom Club song.

SPEAKER_03 52:02

Oh, okay. That'd be a good place to make a cut without people noticing.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Yeah, it's more about the musicianship. So maybe that was why they took it out because maybe that was I hate to say this, guys, the bathroom break song, or one of the bathroom break songs, where it's like, okay, they're gonna do their thing, they're gonna jam for a couple minutes. I'm gonna go use the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

Then I think the other highlight would be the last song that they played, cross-side and painless. It's just such incredibly lightning, fast pace, and the instrumentals, it's amazing that it can be performed live.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Oh, yeah. I I I really like that one because the groove is so relentless, and I really like that in this, and this is not a spoiler, or maybe it is a spoiler for people that's seen the movie, the the listeners. Um, it's the moment where we finally see the audience, really. It is in that moment. It's almost like a jack the box, it's a surprise.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

We were there, they've been there the whole time. Yeah, that's that's the sense.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

You don't hear them really that much either. It they kind of really muted the the audience sounds, and just also how diverse the audience is too. There's like kids there, there's there's you know older people, it's just it seems like a very diverse crowd.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

I think in that one, it was a very tiny arena because there's only like a 3,000 at max capacity. So I think that maybe also added to it as well, because you know, there really weren't really that many people. So I guess they could kind of control the sound a little bit more, and I guess the stage and the visuals. But to go back to cross-eyed and painless, I think also we finally start to see this barrier between the audience and the performers, and it's really weird because when David Byrne leaves the stage, they still continue, they they're still going on, and so it's really interesting. He's like, Okay, guys, have a good night, blah blah blah. And then they're just doing their thing, and they're still like no one's walking out of the arena, they're all into it in the audience, and you're like, uh, let's go.

SPEAKER_06 54:07

Might have been cool if he ended it the way he started it in reverse. Like he's the first one to leave, and then everybody just in reverse order and leaves, and it's just like at the end, it's just like the drummer.

SPEAKER_04 54:20

Yeah, that's that's also when he really brings out the crew, too, so that people can acknowledge, you know, all the work that they were doing on the show.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

I think so too. And I think it's also interesting because if the film was made, say today, I don't think you would end on Cross Eyed and Painless. So I think you would end on a much more famous song like Take Me to the River, for example, or I don't even know which other ones offhand, but that was a song right before that.

SPEAKER_06 54:48

I feel like they've ended with Burning Down the House before it too. I feel like that's been like a closer yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

Well, Cross Eyed and Painless is a good way because it's also a fade out song, like you can have a long instrumental piece so that you can slowly cool everybody down and you know, slowly like kind of exit the stage and you know end the show on a crescendo.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Very, very true. Was there anything else about the movie that you guys liked, like any standout moments or anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to mention on the show?

SPEAKER_06 55:19

Just another shout out to the backup singers. Good lord, did they do a good job? Oh yeah. Like they were they were matching him note for note, toe for toe, every moment.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

Dance move for dance move. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 55:31

Oh my god, they were just incredible. Like everybody on that stage was incredible, but they really shined just incredible. And just how they could just keep basically singing the exact same note over and over again for what's probably like eight minutes straight and never missing a beat, never like missing a key, nothing. Just like just keeps repeating it as perfectly as the last go-round. It's it's a marvel to watch them.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

I think it's important to say their names. It's Lynn Marby and um Edna Holt. And they came from, I don't know if you guys know this, they were in the P Funk universe, the Parliament Funkadelic world. So they worked with George Clinton. Um and I know Lynn was in the Brides of Funkenstein, that offshoot, because that's a whole nother band where it they talk about the Marvel cinematic universe, the George Clinton music universe.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

It's uh craziness. When they inducted Parliament Funkadelic, wasn't there like 25 people that was inducted into the Hall of Fame as part of that organization?

SPEAKER_02 56:29

It was the Grateful Dead level craziness where just if you played, you were in the studio with them, you were in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I don't think that they were in though. Oh, okay. I I think I I I would have to double check, but I don't think that either one of them got in. They should get in just on this movie, like this performance. What's in a lifetime performance from those two? Um, but also what's really interesting is that I know Edna, who's the other one, worked later on with Hall and Oates, which so uh they yeah, they really had a lot of uh different session musicians that they worked on. I think uh one of them also worked with like George Michael and Earth When in Fire and Sheila Gee. So nice.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

And there are a couple of legendary uh session musicians that are uh included in this as well. Um we've I I mentioned Bernie Warrell and then also Adrian Bellew is playing guitar and doing backup vocals on this, and those are two of the best session musicians of the 70s and 80s.

SPEAKER_02 57:27

Absolutely, and um uh Bernie, he played on just so many records. I mean, he played, I mean he was actually inducted as a member of Parliament Funk Adalic in '97. Uh he's also one of the people that is often thought of as like an influential person to the development of hip-hop because P Funk was always uh you know, sampled to death. And he was, of course, the keyboardist in the film. Um, so yeah, he was definitely one for sure. And uh Adrian Ballou was definitely in this film too. He was the guitarist, uh, he was in King Crimson. So and he worked a lot with uh the likes of uh Frank Zappa, David Bowie, um even Night Inch Nails later on, and Paul Simon. It's it's a very eclectic. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty eclectic. Yeah, all these things have in common. They are all the rock and roll hall of fame, and that's it pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

Yeah, also I play guitar with uh Tool and the Wiggles.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

Essentially it's shocking that he's not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's he's just worked with so many people.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

It's tough getting in as a side uh musician, though. I mean, they don't induct very many of them.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

His one thing is that he's still alive. So hopefully maybe someone will uh will go for him. Um was there anyone else in the movie that we didn't mention yet that was in the in here?

SPEAKER_03 59:01

I think we mentioned Steve Scales. He was on backup percussions and Alex Weir was uh guitar and backing vocals.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

Yeah, Busta Jones was in this movie. Um, and he played with a band that we also like, Genga 4. Um and Albert King, he was in the torrent band for the great bluesmen. He actually died like 10 years after this. Uh so very short life. Uh and I think that's what also to bring to Amanda's point from earlier is that it's a very eclectic, not only musically, but also racially. So like you see a lot of artists of color also on stage with the talking heads. And I think that's also I think maybe part of the film's enduring legacy is how eclectic it is, and how it's doing all these things, but it all works so perfectly for what they're trying to capture here and stop making sense.

SPEAKER_06 59:54

That's one of the things I loved so much about it is not only you know people of different races, but also female musicians too, like Tina, and just you know, that's always awesome too. It's one of the reasons why I loved Prince growing up because it was always women on instruments, and yeah, especially when you have a male lead fronting the band, that's always like just the level of respect for me. Just that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Oh, for sure. So usually on A24 Caracols, we'll give our scores and we'll say, is it A24 Essential? This is more of a technicality because it wasn't really made by A24, they just acquired the rights to it later on on the series. Well, I'm sure we'll do Pi and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, because they were later acquired by A24, but not at the time of the production. But I'm gonna ask our co-hosts, regardless, whether they would recommend this movie to listeners. And by the way, if you would consider it A24 essential, if it was hypothetically, even though it's a like a connotation, like not really counting. So Amanda, would you recommend this movie?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

Oh, a hundred percent. Um fives across the board for all the all the scores. Normally we give one to five for for categories. So five across the board. I as I said, I was just really surprised just how fun this was. And you know, sometimes when you're watching a bunch of songs, things like that back to back, it doesn't really keep your interest, but the people in it were so invested in it and the production is so good. I think it just it's hard to it's hard to take a bathroom break when you're when you're watching it because you just don't want to gotta pause it, you don't want to miss anything. I had so much fun with this, so 100% would recommend. Definitely would be A24 Essential if it could be in our in our category things.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

So honorary A24 Essential A24 for from a band uh Darren, would you recommend this movie to listeners?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:50

Absolutely. Yeah, like I said, it's the greatest concert film ever made. I don't even know that there's much of a competition there, but uh it's one of my favorite movies of all time, and it would absolutely be A24 uh carrot gold essential if uh we were graded accordingly.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Great.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

Uh Kaylin.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:10

Yeah, I mean, rounded out. I agree. And I'm I'm not just saying it because I love you know the music in the movie, but actually going through in my head the A24 categories that we use. One of them is cultural diversity and relevance, five. One of them is you know, directorial vision, five. Like everything that we would grade the movie on. I think uh unfortunately this would actually make it. We can't officially put it in the box. But yes, I would say that this would definitely be on the A24 Essential list.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

I'll be the they say in the room. No, I'm kidding. It is definitely a great film. It is uh one of, if not the best, concert films ever made. And I think it it's a hard film almost to talk about because it's almost like what hasn't been said about this movie that I could add to it or re-add to it, but I think we did tonight. We did a great job. And yes, I would have given a five across the board because the vision is so clear from a thematic uh standpoint, from a visual standpoint, from a musical standpoint, and it still holds up. And if I'm not mistaken, guys, it's the number one documentary according to Letterboxd. So it's got like a praise, like a 4.7 out of five average, something ridiculous.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:24

Wow, considering the average demographic that uses Letterboxd, that's incredibly impressive.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

Talking Heads is a band that has aged fantastically. I mean, there aren't many bands that still appeal to like generations four decades later, but uh talking heads translates.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:42

Yeah, definitely does, and I'm just gonna stop making sense for the rest of the episode. Uh again, but it yeah, five's across the board for most people who've seen the movie on Letterboxd, and yeah, it's just it's an awesome film. I implore listeners to if they haven't already watched the film, but if it ever comes to your town or city, go see on the big screen. It's one of those movies that I think it only benefits from doing so. So yeah. Thank you all for talking about this movie. But we get to the final question, which we do on almost every episode of Rock in Retrospect. It's the question that people either love, hate, indifferent to, I don't care if we still do it because it's a lot of fun. So if you're making a mixed, Kayla's like, oh, it's Catholic guilt all over again.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:28

It is.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:29

It's like the one swear word from the actor studio kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Exactly. Like uh yes. So if you are picking your favorite talking head songs, and we'll give you guys five songs each. Which ones are you choosing? And if you want to give a few reasons why, even better. Because it's Amanda's first time, Amanda, you get to go first. And oh, by the way, guys, if it repeats, that's totally fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:55

Okay. I feel like I'm gonna go very basic here, but I will do Psycho Killer, Burning Down the House, Once in a Lifetime, Life During the Wartime, and What a Day That Was. And I think all of these songs I just I put in my notes just like giant word of vibes. Most of them just have like a really cool chorus, very iconic chorus. A song like Psycho Killer. I first heard about The Talking Heads when I was in college, and we used to dance to that at parties on like Friday and Saturday nights. So that holds kind of a special place in my memory bank. I also just really like once in a lifetime of what a day that was, just because it it kind of looks at the mundane kind of parts of life and sometimes looks at the repetitions of life and how some things, you know, maybe don't change that much and maybe they should. Um and life during wartime, I think it's it's interesting because of like the espionage piece and things like that on it. So I think they're always making things that are relatable and sometimes kind of silly, but then also there's a lot of kind a lot of meaning behind each of their songs too. They all they have really great hooks. So, you know, great to dance to, great to listen to. So yeah, those are my five.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

Great. Thank you, Amanda. Darren, what are you picking?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

All right. Uh I've got to start with Psychokiller. Um, it's one of my favorite songs of all time. It's just such a weird and unique and unsettling song, you know. It's a song about a psycho killer being told from the perspective of a psycho killer as if you're inside of their mind. It's like the American psycho of songs. It's it's just amazing. Yeah, Life During Wartime is another one of my favorite songs. Uh it's it's like amazing story, this is a little short story novel of a song. And then uh the other three songs that I picked are actually not in Stop Making Sense. They're released later in their career. So uh some of my favorite songs by the Talking Heads uh were from Little Creatures or True Stories. And those songs are uh Road to Nowhere and He Was and Wild Wildlife. And I think that those are just uh amazing uh songs, the the construction, the way that it just you know builds into the chorus and the way that the chorus just grabs you and then pushes it forward uh amazing. Uh just talking heads, like I said, one of my probably 10 favorite bands of all time. And uh I've got a long listed uh honor mentions if I needed them, but uh we got the five that we're gonna go with. So there we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

Very cool. Caitlin, we know one of your favorites.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:26

You know the favorite. But just to recap, so yes, this must be the place all-time favorite talking head song, without a doubt, with a bullet to the top of the list. From there, I actually have so mine are more tied to it's pretty basic, but mine are more tied to nostalgia. So burning down the house and once in a lifetime again, because the videos were always on on MTV. And I also remember this was around the time that I started to get into video games starting with Atari. You can't get much more 80s than Atari and Talking Heads. So whenever I hear those songs, it reminds me of firing up like E.T and Mega Mania and all the ones that I started with way back in the day when I was like five or eight years old or something. So that that's childhood in a box. And then from there, I it's actually kind of funny. I have and she was too, but I actually have that because of Look Who's Talking. So I really liked like that. Was one of the points in the movie that I really liked was the montage set to that. And then when I found out way later it was Talking Heads, I was like, oh, that's really cool. So yep, and she was is on there too, and also slippery people, because just that's just I could I could groove with that song forever. Like, I'm not the kind of person who takes substances, but I imagine that I could take substances and just have that on a loop for hours and just be in my own little world. So those are my top five.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:45

Great, thank you, Caitlin and uh Amanda Darren. Uh, and if you share some with me, I gotta share some with you guys. So I'll give you some of my favorite talking head songs. Uh, my favorite talk and head song is probably Life's your wartime. I don't know what it is about that song, it's just so electric and it has that great groove, and it's so weird, and it's everything I like about the band, really. It's almost like this mysteriousness that I can't really figure them out, but I don't really want to figure them out because I'm so uh mesmerized by them. And that was off of fear of music. One of my other favorites is we mentioned it because it's in the film, also, is uh Take Me to the River, which was on more songs about buildings and food. It's really interesting because, like we're saying, it was the Al Green song, but they made it their own, and they give it this funkiness that really gave it a new life. And I think it's just amazing when artists reinterpret a song and they make it their own, but you could listen to both the Al Green and the Talking Heads versions, and they're both great songs on their own, right? So I really love those two songs in particular. Another one that I really like, and I think we mentioned this already, Psycho Killer, their breakthrough from Talking Head 77. I don't know, there's just something about the unreliable narrator, David Byrne, that just works so well here. And I don't know, I just I think it's them at their punkiest, but also that bass line is so recognizable, and uh the lyrics are just both funny and quite disturbing at the same time. And you're thinking, should I be singing along to this? Should I be uh going to a sid or something? Um, so those are the three hits, and then I'll give you um a couple of uh I guess either deeper songs or songs that I think that listeners should definitely go and take a look at. One that I like, it's one that was not on this film or in the film from Little Creatures is Stay Up Late, which it's one of their more radio friendly songs. And at first you would think it's a song about a baby and they just want to stay up late or whatever, but it's really I think David Burns' uh fascination with just everyday life and domesticity that I think makes it work so well. So I think it's them at their lighter side. My last song that I'll pick for listeners is more of a deeper cut from Fear of Music. It's Air, which I think it's such a strange song, but I think it's hauntingly beautiful. And I think it's actually one of the more anthematic and understated songs from their catalog, and I really enjoy it. So we'll go with Air. Those are our favorite talking head songs, people. And I hope you all enjoyed this episode. And thank you to Amanda, Darren, and Kaelin for joining me on this episode tonight. We went on this journey where we tried to make sense of stop making sense, and we will let Amanda promote our show.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:47

Yeah, so everyone should check out a 24 carat gold. As Nick was saying, we release on the 24th of each month, and you can follow us on all the socials. It's at a 24 carat spelled out K-A-R-H-T Gold, and we're on all the platforms: Instagram, threads, letterbox, Facebook, Blue Sky, any others I'm forgetting, we're probably on them too. And you can stream us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. So hope everybody checks out our we have we have a good good movie coming up for the end of this month if if people like things that are a little weird. So um, so so we'll leave it at that. But hopefully everybody checks out the show. So we have a lot of fun making it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:28

Just don't stay up late watching that movie. That's all I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:31

Uh don't don't do don't don't watch it while you're eating either. No, or doing anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:36

Or doing anything. Just watch. Sit in a blank room and stare at the TV.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:41

Amanda is our litmus test, and she was able to get through it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:45

So for people who don't love horror, um, you know, I I I'm with you there, but if I can get through it, I think anybody can.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

So yeah, we got through it, and uh that episode will be out on the 24th of this month. Uh and again, thank you to you all for joining me on this episode. And thank you to our listeners for checking out this episode. If you'd like to follow us uh on social media, we're on Blue Sky, Instagram, and Facebook with the handle at Rock and Retro Pod. And if you would like to support our Patreon and our independent if you would like to support our uh Patreon with that same handle, please do so. It helps support independent uh podcasters like myself. Keep doing our thing. So thank you to our Patreon supporters. And while you're at it, too, if you really like this episode, give us a reading or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Don't ask me how the algorithms work and how people discover the show because I don't understand it, and no one else really does either. But uh it would mean a lot to us and help people discover the show. So uh yeah, it could be on this episode on Stop Beat Sense, or really any episode in our archives as well. But that's it. Thank you again to Amanda, Kaylin, and Darren for joining me tonight, and thank you again to our listeners for checking this episode out, and we'll catch you all next one.