The Eternal Daughter (2022)

"My mother! My daughter! My mother! My daughter!" But this is no Chinatown. Why is Tilda Swinton playing her mother *and* her mother's daughter? Is it a gimmick, or is it because the BBC only has five sets and four actors? (IYKYK) 

Find out if Nick, Kailyn, Darren, and Amanda think the enigmatic film The Eternal Daughter (2022) should be preserved *eternally* as an A24kGold Essential, then stick around to see what The Wheel will make us watch next!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of A24 Carrot Gold. I'm your co-host, Nick Bamback. Joining me are my three co-hosts. We got Kaylin, Amanda, and Darren. I hope you all are doing well tonight.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Yep, I'm doing all right.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Yeah, my guests are so excited. This is gonna be our fourth ever episode that's gonna be a deep dive on an A24 boothie. And we are actually going into the 2020s with this selection. We're gonna do Joanna Hogg's The Eternal Daughter from 2022, and I'm gonna pass it off to my co-host Amanda, who is gonna provide a lot of great information and details about the production of this film. So take it away, Amanda.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

All right, so we're doing the Eternal Daughter. The director was Joanna Hogg. The producers um were Rose Garnett, Ed Guinea, Martin Scorsese, Amir McMahon, Emma Norton, Andrew Lowe, and Joanna Hogg. It was also written by Joanna Hogg. The stars are Tilda Switten, Lewis the Dog, Joseph McDowell, Carly Sophia Davies, and the editor was Hella Lufera. The cinematographer was Ed Rutherford, the music supervisor, the main one was Maggie Rodford, Maria Adaxio was the assistant music supervisor, Sierra Elvis, Joven Idier was the composer for additional music, and Lucy Driver was the flute player. The budget for this was unknown, but we do know the box office numbers, and in the US and Canada, it grossed a little over $86,000, and worldwide it was $568, a little over $568,000. And in terms of the background, uh Joanna Hogg relayed in a Roger Ebert interview with Myra Gates that some of the inspiration of this film is in ghost stories of the past, like by Edith Warden, M.R. James, Roderick Kipling, or films like The Innocents, which was a 1961 film with Deborah Kerr. In that same interview though, with Tilda Switten, Hogg said, the idea behind this film is the lack of divide between mothers and daughters, how the two are almost like one and there is this desire to separate as the daughter ages. Hogg said, Because I first wanted to make the story almost like 15 years ago or something, I wrote it, but I didn't allow myself to make it. It's just too close to home. My mother was alive, and I just didn't have the guts to do it. I felt like it was stabbing her in the heart or something to make this film. Then somehow something changed in 2015 or thereabouts. At the time she said my mother's still alive, but obviously older, and I was older, and I thought I'm gonna have another go at this. And it was acknowledged by Swinton and Hogg that having these characters be fictional and knowing that our memories can sometimes not be very accurate also helped and added an extra layer between Hogg and the story. As a note, Hogg's mother was alive during the filming but did pass during the editing process. Swinton and Hogg uh are not strangers to working with one another. They first worked together on a short film Caprice in 1986, which was the piece Hogg made for her graduation from the National Film and Television School. The two also worked together on both souvenir films. And Hogg said in a Vogue interview that this film is a coda, maybe to those. She said, I never saw it as the third part of a trilogy. It's often the case that I'll make a film and there's something that I'm still interested in afterward that will lead to the next thing. But she I wanted to go in a different direction towards something ghostly, but with characters that were developed during the making of the souvenirs. And Swinton also played the mother Rosalind in both souvenir films, while her actual daughter Honor played her daughter Julie in the other in the souvenir films. And then in the eternal daughter, Swinton actually plays the mother and the daughter role. And Hog relayed that it was actually Swinton's idea to play both. And regarding the connection between these three films, between the Eternal Daughter and the Souvenir films, Swinton also said it's more to do with the sensibility. We like the feeling that there were little hairs set running in the souvenirs that we were hunting down in this film. But we haven't hunted them all down by any means. And Swinton is not a stranger to playing dual roles or multiple characters in films. She did it in Syspiria. And she said of this role, actually, it's absolutely essential that the mother and daughter are played by the same person. We wanted both portraits to be as natural and authentic as they possibly could be, given that I was still presenting as a very old woman who was born in a different era and uses a different kind of language and moves in a particular way. So in many ways, I don't see this as multiple roles. I see this as a portrait and a projection. And Catherine Bray, who interviewed both Hogg and Switten for The Guardian, said that Hogg does not write scripts but has a 30-page document or so with a broad outline of what's going to happen in the film. Hogg's actors aren't given lines to learn in the usual way, but they have a sense of their character and where the scene needs to go. And Bray said that Swinton describes this process as anchored in a very balanced way, uncluttered by technical concerns involving remembering lines and coordinating them with other lines. The things people say in Joanna's films bubble up from within the people who say them. A24 got the world rights to Eternal Daughter in 2021, and BDFI handled the release of it in the UK and Ireland in 2023, premiered at the Venice Film Festival in September of 2022, and was released in limited theaters in the US and on demand in December of 2022. In terms of critical exception, a lot of critics liked it. Quite a few praised Swinton for her work. In the BBC, it was actually the top 20 of their 2022 films, and they said that Swinton gives two stunning performances, playing both an aging mother Rosalind, and her middle-aged filmmaker Dar Julie, in one of the year's most eloquently haunting, beautiful films. And um within the New York Times, they also said that Hogs Graystroke and the Eternal Daughters are casting of Swinton in both lead roles. And critics also praised the atmosphere around it, the ghost like quality, its meaning. In time, they said the eternal daughter isn't just a ghost story, but a song sung by a daughter to her mother across a small table at dinner or across the space that remains when the people we love had left us. And in terms of audience scores, penny on Rotten Tomatoes, for example, didn't like the slow burn aspect. Critics gave it a 95% out of 137 reviews, while the audience gave it a 44% out of a little over 100 plus audience reviews. On Letterboxd, over 41,000 members have seen it. Uh, but the scores were majority three stars, and it had about 9,000 rate reviews or so. And on IMDB, it has a 5.9 out of a little over 7,600 ratings. So the summary of this film is a woman brings her mother to an eerie old hotel to celebrate her mother's birthday, forcing them to spend time together and confront things past and present. So I believe this is a first-time watch for all of us.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Yes, yes, yes, yep, yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

To be fair, Amanda, uh, thank you by the way for that. That was really excellent, as always. Uh, I don't think any of us have heard of the movie really when we picked it. We were like, the eternal daughter.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

We never heard of it, but only because of its connection to the souvenir part one and two.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, I I never heard of it. And then we all kind of had a blank stare, and we were like, let's Google this mofo really quick. Like a BBC movie. It felt like something you would watch on like channel four. Definitely. It definitely had that channel four BBC kind of vibe to it. Now I'm I'm kind of curious about this with our co-hosts because we all had to rent the movie because it wasn't on any subscription service. What platform do you use to rent movies?

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Usually I use Amazon.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Yeah, Amazon Prime.

SPEAKER_05 8:26

I used YouTube because I'm boycotting Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

I use Fandango at home.

SPEAKER_05 8:32

I usually use them, but for some reason the password hasn't been working, and no matter what, when I change it, it doesn't work. And I'm like, Fandango, what are you doing to me? I would much rather like go through them, but it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Amazon never works usually for me. If they want all these authenticators or whatever, and I'm just like, I just want to rent a movie, like just make my life simple, like keep it simple.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

I've also used Apple T like Apple has good deals on rentals most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah, Apple was more expensive, it was like a dollar or two more than what we were going for because it was like $3.99. I think it was either $4.99 or $5.99. I'm like, why?

SPEAKER_01 9:09

This I think I was like a deal for this one where I actually ended up buying it because it was only a few pennies more, but maybe I'm thinking of a different rental.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

I was just curious what our co-hosts, because we talk to each other all the time, but I'm thinking like, what what rental platforms do we use exactly?

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Um this one was definitely tough to decide. It was like pick your poison.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

And the library I go to said that this movie did not exist when I put in uh interlibrary loan request.

SPEAKER_05 9:34

Yes, I did not find a copy in the entire county, not one library had it. I was like, Well, okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Explains by the lack of people who actually saw this, and it was similar to The Lovers, where I said not a lot of people actually saw this movie and had very strong feelings for the people.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

I mean, Box Office Grossa Banda is less than what people get for that average house now, it seems.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah, that's like what one see one theater will make showing uh Groku and the Mandalorian this weekend.

SPEAKER_05 10:06

Yeah, and honestly, too, like Tilda Swin is pretty big, so I'm surprised that like the library didn't care either. Like not one streaming service had it.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

The name that jumped out at me really was Scortesi.

SPEAKER_05 10:16

That too. I saw that in the credits and I was like, What?

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Because you guys know this, listeners know this too. He's my favorite director. So when I saw his name, I was like, How have I not heard about this? This is odd.

SPEAKER_05 10:31

Yeah, I did a double thing when his name popped up.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

He does a lot of executive producer work, especially on like indie type stuff. So I believe there's like a working relationship with Joanna Hogg.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

So he's been like a mentor for her. He liked some of her earlier films, and I I think they met either right before or during the uh Irishman when that would came out about 2017, 2018, 2019. So um, it kind of makes sense, I guess. And I was thinking, like, there's big names here, even Joanna Hogg, she's a pretty well-known entity for a movie that we have not really heard of all that much, really, up until we chose it. But that's why we love the wheel, right? Because the wheel helps us pick and watch things that we would never be on our radars. I gotta ask one question before we get started with this, too. Is have you guys seen The Sylvenir?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

No, I've seen both souvenir movies.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Now, Darren, I'm gonna ask you like I'm hijacking the conversation, by the way, because like why not? Now, Darren, do you think that because all three of us, me, Amanda, and Caitlyn, have not seen The Sylvenir, and this is technically the third film in that trilogy. Do you think it would have helped us to have watched the Sylvenir movies before this, or is it like fine as a standalone?

SPEAKER_01 11:46

I think it's fine as a standalone. I think you know, maybe you might have gotten something out of it if you'd seen the first two souvenir movies. But uh, and by the way, I like the first one a lot better than the second one. And I don't think it's essential. I mean, when they say it's a part of a the third part of a trilogy, it is more of a spiritual trilogy and then like some themes that are explored and that are the same. But it's not like a direct one-to-one relationship like the first two.

SPEAKER_05 12:10

So we would say it's kind of like the Corneto trilogy. You can watch any of those by themselves.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

A little bit, yeah. Yeah. Well, the second one would make sense even if you hadn't seen the first one, but like you're gonna get a lot of references because I can't recall if it's like the second movie is like making a movie about the events of her real life that are adapted in the first movie. So um, you know, it makes a lot more sense if you've seen the first one, but uh, you don't necessarily have to.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Now, something too in my prep for this episode, too, that I didn't realize is that um Hollick and Swinton, they have known each other for four decades. I don't know if you guys know this, but like her short film Caprice, that actually starred Tilda in it, and that was her graduation film from film school because she went to the National Film and Television School, which is in um um oh god, where why am I up in England? In England, of course. Why why why would it not be with with those two fine English women in it? So they had known each other for so many years, and and they were in like the Derek Jarman we are uh universe too in the 80s and 90s as well. So I'm just saying that for context too, because they clearly have like a work-in relationship, but they've also known each other for almost as long as they've been professionals.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

So yeah, that kind of blew me away because I didn't I thought she was a relatively new director and didn't realize that she was making short films in the 80s.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

They were together for a long time.

SPEAKER_05 13:37

Was she involved in Only Lovers Left Alive then?

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Jarmouche movie?

SPEAKER_05 13:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Not that I'm aware of.

SPEAKER_05 13:44

It feels like that would be her jam. I don't know, it just because like the vibe of this movie kind of felt like the vibe of that movie a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

I think with her and Jarbin, it was more like they knew each other and like they like talked to each other, communicated. But I I think he was more like a mentor, I guess, is I guess the correct way I would I would argue. Uh more than they actually were the dates. Like Tilda is actually in the Jarbon films, like she's in Edward II, for for example. But she's also known for music videos, too. That's actually, I think, how I knew this because she did a lot of late 80s and early 90s music videos, and she was made like a television and really like uh theater and like just not film, really. Film isn't until like the 2000s, I don't think, for her, really.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, I'm looking at IMDB. She made Caprice in 86, and then she directed TV credits right up until a movie called Unrelated in 2007, and then a couple more films before uh the souvenir, but they're pretty sparsed out, like four years, three years, three years, six years between films, and then three three years, three movies with uh souvenir one, two, and eternal daughterhood.

SPEAKER_05 14:53

What did she do in the movie music videos? I'm like super curious.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

She did Alison Monet, uh, who was in Yaz and Yazoo.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Ooh, yay. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

And she's just kind of did things here and there, but I think she's one of those people where I'm trying to think of an American contemporary that would make sense, almost like she just did her own thing, and it was up like wherever the work went, not necessarily the format.

SPEAKER_05 15:19

It just feels like it was kind of like Fincher, like music videos, TV, movies, she can do it all.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

She also worked with Tom Hillston, I think, very early. Speaking of career, yeah, in our yeah, in like 2010.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah, I just had to talk a little bit about her career and like the connections because I thought that was super fascinating when I was looking into this. Uh, because I thought she was relatively new as a director just because her first feature film was 2007. Yeah, but no, she's been she's been around. I mean, she's in her late 60s, so wow. Um, cool. Um, thank you so much again, Amanda, for that overview of the movie. I always learn a lot, and especially on this one, because I didn't know anything about this movie until I hit play, honestly.

SPEAKER_05 16:09

So I'm honestly surprised we didn't say, like, oh, this was definitely made like because it was a COVID movie. It felt very much a COVID movie.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

It does have the COVID movie.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

I wrote this. That was literally my first note that I wrote. I was like, this was totally baited COVID because you don't see anybody here, and yeah, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 16:28

Yeah. But I got that feeling when she was on the phone outside, and there's nobody around, like, there's nobody on the road, there's nobody else at the hotel. It's like, yeah, this is a COVID movie.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

They found the house online, too. Like, they just you know looked at listings and things like that. So it definitely didn't do a lot of like location scouting or anything like that for this.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

It works for this movie though, because isolation is a big part of it.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah. Which leads me to my first category, which is narrative elements. So we're gonna look at things like plot, story, character development, and dialogue. So I'm just gonna mention one thing that I took away from this movie, and then I'll see what the RC hosts think, and then we'll just kind of have this uh impromptu conversation. So for me, I thought that part of what made The Eternal Daughter so interesting was its central themes, which include things like grief and memory and parent-child relationships. Like those were just three that stood out to me. Do you guys have any thoughts on any of those three?

SPEAKER_03 17:29

We'll probably maybe talk a little bit about this in the in the acting portion, but I I think I was mostly struck in this film by the differences between her kind of portrayal of both performances, you know, with the Julie character, it's very with the Julia character, it's very much so more emotional, everything's kind of at the at the tip of the skin, and then with Rosalind, everything is a bit more reserved, and she's only really revealing things if she's pushed or if she really wants to, just in the course of a conversation. So I think in trying to make these two really distinct entities, it I don't know. I think it's just very true of when you have younger children caring for older parents, it's people of a different generation expressing things in a in a completely separate way from from how their children would.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

I think with the film, I think part of it is this fear of like losing the parent, and especially that uh the father's no longer the picture. And Julie, her anxiety throughout the entire film is reflecting this almost anticipatory grief in the sense that she's fearful that she's gonna lose someone before they're actually gone, if that makes sense. And I think that even when they're talking to another, uh Julie just seems very like tense and emotional. And I think that's to illustrate the point that time is limited, like her time with her mother and her desire to record the memories for her screenplay, and all these things are ways to help preserve the presence of her mother before she dies. So it's like really weird. It's like this melancholic kind of thing that's happening at play. Um, because she's almost like trying to have like this live-in document or this thing to say, like, this is who my mother Rosalyn is. But it's like she's still here. Enjoy the time while you have it. Come on, Julie, get get your shit together.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

So I thought I had this film figured out, and then we get to the end of this film, and we see, you know, Julie at at that birthday dinner with her mother, and and when the candle is blown out, her mother is not sitting across from her. So so Nick, when you're when you're saying in enjoy the time because your mother's here, is is she is she really there? This is where I I lost the thread here in terms of is this film what she would have liked this weekend to be, or these actual memories that she's reliving being in this place?

SPEAKER_01 20:09

I was a little bit confused with kind of where we were in the Probably a mix is what I would say, is that uh it's what she would, you know, a kind of a mix of what she did say uh in the past or what she wanted to say or what she wished she had said, you know, like you know, when you you think of the perfect thing to say, but you don't say it at the moment, you think of it after it's too late.

SPEAKER_05 20:28

The minute we pulled it up on the wheel and we said that she plays her mother and her daughter, I'm like, oh, so the mother's dead the whole time. And it was just so frustrating to me, the entire movie, because I'm like, I am both completely enthralled with Tilda's performance because she just nails the nuances of the younger daughter and the older mother. She plays two distinct characters very distinctly, and I just was in awe of how fantastic of an actress she is. And then the entire time I'm just like, I know the mother is dead. When are we gonna get to it? And it just goes completely like I didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

That's the thing. I applaud everybody for knowing ahead of time because I didn't know ahead of time. I'm caught in when you just missed it.

SPEAKER_05 21:07

Oh, yeah, no, I I knew going in. I'm like, the mom's totally not even there, she's a figment of her imagination, and when are they gonna reveal it already? And I'm just like, I've seen too many movies.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

That's why it benefits from there not being a lot of other characters, you don't have to hide that uh as much.

SPEAKER_05 21:22

Yeah, yeah, but it was just it was so supremely obvious to me. I feel like if they're building the whole movie up on this being in a plot twist, I'm going to be so angry. But then when I realized, like when they do finally reveal it, it does feel like a quiet meditation on grief. And it was like, okay, that's fine. Like they didn't build it up with like a swelling score, and you know, oh my god, dead the whole time, six minutes. It was just like, okay, no, if you knew the whole journey that she was dead the whole time, you don't feel like you're let down by the reveal, but it's also not like you know, you're trying to pull it over by me because I can see through this gauze that you have over my face.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Although the mother character in this movie Was killed by Donnie Wahlberg. So you know it is secretly uh uh tied in with the sixth sense.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

Yes, yes. There's a there's a thread connecting it all.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

But yeah, it's it's just gonna pop out of the closet.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

He just goes and kills every character who plays a secret.

SPEAKER_05 22:21

It was the one on the other end of the phone. But yeah, that that definitely took a little bit of it out of me because it was just like just like I had my fingers on the chair, like what are we gonna open? Oh just say it.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Oh man.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

Yeah, but I mean, like her performance, you can't knock it. Like, she was incredible in this movie. You have to have a good actress at the center of it, or the whole thing would fall apart.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's like the only element in the movie, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

I think that um it it's really interesting because I have thoughts on her, the mother being dead the entire time, but it's gonna fall to one of our other categories. So I'm gonna keep that in mind so we have that uh on the pot boiling. But I gotta give a shout out because my co-hosts know that I love dogs because you know that like why would I not? We'll say though, Louis the Dog is incredible in this movie, and you know what? Dog performances in the last three or four years have been phenomenal.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

Anatomy before always comes to mind. First one that comes together.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

It's her dog, too. It's Tilda Smith and it was their dog.

SPEAKER_05 23:29

That's cute.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

We know it's pronounced Louis and not Lewis. She kept saying Louis. Oh, okay. He doesn't want to be seen in public, you know, recognized when you're walking down the street, so he goes by a different name in movies.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yes. I thought the dog was really wonderful, and it was the character actually I cared the most about in this movie because when the dog say that too.

SPEAKER_05 23:55

I knew you were gonna say that.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

People know this. Like when I saw Good Boy last year, I was texting a lot of friends, and I'm just like, they need to watch this movie because the dog is incredible and made me cry almost multiple times watching that movie. But the reason why with the dog is because there's that moment where you don't know if he's gonna get killed or he's left or whatever, but he came back. I actually wrote in my notes, and I said, Why is the effing dog gone? He was the best part of the movie. This sounds so sad, and then I wrote, lol, he's back, thank God.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Never mind, he's back, all as well. I will say, like, the scene of the of the dog just as her as her mother is is passing and going to sleep, and just the scene of the dog sitting in the bed is so yeah, so sad, so cute.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

But the dog is always crying though. So, like I kept saying to myself, too, because if you notice like when the dog enters the house, I can't describe, but it's almost like a wailing noise. I I can't articulate it. But I'm thinking, like, why don't they do it to this dog? Like, Tilda, get your shit together and get Louie whatever he needs.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

Um, legitimately, like, not to smooth Loubi at all, but like, what is the point of him being well? Because you would figure, like, okay, either the point is like he's going to get killed by a supernatural force, or he's going to be proof that the mother is alive or dead. Honestly, like the movie could function without him. I don't understand what his purpose is.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

The dog?

SPEAKER_05 25:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Oh, I think the dog's the emotional connection. Like, I don't give a shit about the mother-daughter. It's her neck. Or it's not to care about the movie.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

It's the mother's dog, right? So isn't that it's like another thing for the daughter to take care of it?

SPEAKER_01 25:42

It's a dog.

SPEAKER_05 25:43

Yeah. I think it's like if you focus on a dog that much, like you have an anatomy of a fall situation where the dog is crucial to the plot. Oh my god, I can totally hear my New York accent. Dog. But yeah, point is the dog is like it's an essential element to that movie. This movie, I feel like he's really not. And I feel bad because he does the job.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

But dog dogs always are like, you know, coded as like having some connection to uh things that are beyond human perception. So if you're telling like a ghost story type of story like this, then you know, having a dog that kind of freaks out at certain points in time definitely does help with the theme.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

Yeah, but it also kind of makes it fall apart because it's like, well, if there was nothing there and she was like one person the whole time, what is he even freaking out about? Like that whole scene with him going missing, is it just like at the end you're just supposed to reconcile it? Is like, okay, he just left the hotel but came back. What was the point of that?

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Sensing her emotions or something like that, you know, sensing that she's distressed.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

I think it's another thing for the daughter to take care of. Also, it takes us out of the hotel. It's the only really excuse that we have to go outside and experience the fog and doesn't the dog running away like lead to the interaction with the uh the other characters.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Right. The yeah, exactly. Well, I think Louie also serves as like this companion, like we were just talking about, because I think he's actually the emotional anchor to this film because it's what connects the mother and the daughter. Because really, I think part of the film is that it's a strange relationship where it's a complex relationship, and the dog, I think, provides solace for these two characters who are either lonely or just not emotionally stable. I mean, we can also get to like the gothic elements of Louis, he's in this supernatural environment, and we're thinking like ghost stories like Amanda, you mentioned the innocence and the haunted and films like that. I mean, Louie can see things that maybe we don't see, so like adhere is things that we don't see. So him going into the hallway, like you're assuming that he's seeing this unseen presence, for example, or sounds, or whatever it may be, and that kind of helps, I think, build the anxiety of these characters in this foreign space. That I mean, the mother is linked to the house because it was the mother's house during wartime. So, I mean, it's kind of like this idea that Louis's trying to kind of help bring them together essentially, but he's also this really interesting dichomedy between the real world and the supernatural fantasy world that this film is occupying. Plus, he's just so darn cute. I love that dog. Yeah, he's really cute. Um, so I gotta also talk about a character that I kind of liked the more I thought about it after the movie. During the movie, I didn't really like this person, but that receptionist at the hotel, she is the worst receptionist and hotel employee ever. Think like shit's creek, but like I was just gonna say that.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

She did so many jobs, she was the only person basically working there besides what was it, Bill, the other, the groundskeeper, and only two people working in the hotel the whole time.

SPEAKER_05 28:58

I mean, apparently there was a kitchen that served food, but I mean, I think she made the food.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

I think she made it back there, and then she just came out.

SPEAKER_05 29:04

The kitchen is closing, by the way. I am the kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

There's only four things on the menu. You can't take this long to look at the menu. I died.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

And just like kicking the bag near the mother's chair every single time she walked.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

It's it's English food, you'll be fine without it. Antagus.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yes. And then I was gonna ask you guys' thoughts on the taxi driver at the very beginning because he helped set up the narrative essentially. Did you guys have any thoughts on the the taxi driver?

SPEAKER_03 29:36

I mean, I I think I appreciated the what was it? He was kind of telling this scary story about something that he had witnessed. Was it at this hotel or maybe at a different place? I I like the little mix of of ghost story within the sort of ghostly story. Um, but a very brief character, interesting, interesting narrative, I guess. He kind of set up of what the atmosphere might be like.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

So were there any themes or any characters or anything that we haven't talked about yet that you guys want to talk about?

SPEAKER_05 30:11

One thing I thought was weird was when the quote unquote the mom was having that conversation with Bill, like how? Because if she's watching it from the outside and you'd think, and like I knew the whole time the mom was dead, so I'm like, okay, like she's gonna it's gonna be revealed that she's actually the one talking to him, but the things that they were discussing, she wouldn't be talking about as the daughter, she would be talking about as the mother. So is she like pretending to be her mom and the guy's just humoring her because she's nuts, or did that not actually really happen? Did it only happen in her head? And then something that I thought was kind of cool right after that, you finally see her and her mom in the same screen. Because I know like they kept cutting back and forth between the two, and it's like, ah, small budget, you're not gonna try and do that like mirror trick where they're both in the same scene, but after that they were. So I was wondering if that was related. Like maybe it was just a scene showing you something about her mind fracturing or coming back together. I'm not entirely sure, but those two scenes back to back were kind of odd to me.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

I think that was where I where I'm still having the confusion of did this thing happen or is it just a projection of what she wish had happened? And then, yeah, how did that interaction with Bill actually go? Because he seems to say to Julie at the end, you did everything right, nothing was this this was all out of your control. You so you shouldn't blame yourself.

SPEAKER_05 31:28

Yeah, like when they actually had that conversation, like, ah, we're gonna get some resolution as to how that conversation with the mom went, but we don't really. He's just like reassuring her, and then she's off and that's it. And it's like, but the things they were talking about was stuff specific to the mom. So, like, did that actually happen? Was she pretending to be her mom? Was it like a fight club situation? Like, what exactly was going on?

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Maybe they talked years ago or something along the line?

SPEAKER_05 31:52

Maybe, yeah, because I mean he was older, so possibly, but I don't know. It just that was that was strange to me. And then the whole like you finally see mom and daughter in the same scene together was also like, oh wow, that's weird. We're we're turning the narrative somehow, and then that was kind of left on left unresolved, I guess. It was like, how come all of a sudden we're seeing them in the scene together, but then we don't again? And then it goes back to the birthday scene where you're seeing one at the one at a time. Though I do think there was one shot at least where you see both of them sitting at the table, which was like, oh, okay, we're doing that again. And then obviously at the end, like she's not really there. But I thought that was odd. For the whole movie, they don't really do that. And then you get two scenes like that where they do, and it's like, what are you trying to tell me?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I think that actually plays into this other idea of that I was thinking about this film, was about how a lot of artists now, but especially filmmakers, but could be really any art form, they use biographical or really autobiographical elements of their own life to try to project into their own work. And it almost bleeds to the point of like kind of like get into what Caitlin was saying, like, what is the truth really? And whose perspective is this? Is this the projection of the mother as seen through Julie, or is this how the mother actually is? And I think that is really interesting to consider because Joanna Hogg did base this on her own life, a lot of the elements for this film. So I don't know. I think that uh it's definitely something to definitely consider for for the film.

SPEAKER_05 33:24

Maybe she just left it purposely ambivalent, like you can figure it out yourself, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

But that's what frustrated me a lot because I'm like, they tell me what it's so abstract sometimes. I don't know what it is. Uh it's it's like if we're gonna show me something, kind of explain it a little bit more or have some things.

SPEAKER_05 33:43

By the end, you hope you've figured something out, but it doesn't really resolve. It's like, okay, the way the receptionist regards her is like, okay, she's going through some heavy stuff and she's gone through it. Like at the end, she's just like, Oh, you're you're better now, you're okay, yeah, I'm okay. And it's like, oh, okay. It's presented in the type of way where Julia's supposed to have seen the receptionist throughout the whole movie as being hostile and kind of bitchy. And then at the end, it's just like, oh, wait, no, she actually wasn't hostile. It was just my perception of her. She was actually like caring about me, and I was seeing it wrong. But then I feel like the ending didn't kind of earn that. So I don't know. I don't know. It just all felt like I splices of ideas, and then like you kind of make up your own mind, but I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

But you know what it is, Caitlin, too, with this idea of like grief and um memory and those types of themes, they're so repetitive in the story that I feel like at some point it there's gotta be a bigger payoff than what it actually is. I mean, I don't know. I just was kind of at a point where I was kind of like, I I I guess we have to end the movie somehow.

SPEAKER_05 34:48

So I yeah, I felt that too. I was just basically like, okay, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

I also just I didn't love that we found out she was trying to write a screenplay like an hour into the film. I've I think if we're gonna be this meta and we're gonna do the thing in the thing, you know. I thought she was a writer. I had no idea what she was doing. And I just I wanted it sooner.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Can I can I ask a serious question to the group? I wrote this down at that point when she said that. I said, Did she and I'm gonna ask you guys because maybe I missed it. Did she say what her profession was exactly up until that point? Because I did not know that she was a filmmaker.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

I did not know I thought she was a writer or something.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

Yeah, I thought I missed it. Aren't they always writers in this type of movie? I just thought she was like a novelist, or that's what I thought, like a Jack Torrance kind of character.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Maybe I'm just thinking of Hokum. It's like every time there's a movie about somebody who goes to an isolated place, they're always a writer.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Yeah, yeah, such a cop out at this, right? It's like I'll go into a foreign land that I have know nothing about. Oh, I'm a writer.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Write what you know. Okay, I know writing. Okay, all right then.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

But also, like, did her mother know she was recording her in these interactions? I felt like no.

SPEAKER_05 36:02

But then I'm gonna think she's like if her mom is in her head, is she recording her responses as she would answer her mother? Like, what are you actually recording if she's not really there? A lot of it was left ambivalent. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

That's kind of how I felt too, because I don't know who if it was actually the mother or her perception of the mother, because that's two totally different things. Um Right.

SPEAKER_05 36:24

Like, is she conversing with her actual mother in her head, or is she conversing with how her mother would have answered?

SPEAKER_00 36:30

I but that does that meta aspect to this her telling the memories of the mother, doesn't that seem kind of exploitative or really inauthentic in a weird way? Because it could be her truth, but it could not be the actual truth either. You know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. I love how we're just deep in dive going so deep into this, and we're trying to get answers, and we're gonna call Joanna Hogg and be like, Can you explain this to us?

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Because you know, I thought I had it and then I didn't have it.

SPEAKER_04 37:03

Yeah, I was like, I got this, guys, and then at the end I was like, Don't worry, I will solve this for everybody.

SPEAKER_05 37:09

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 37:09

I have no idea what I just saw.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Wow, yeah. Okay, we try to do the best we can to get to the real uh answers to all this stuff.

SPEAKER_05 37:20

Um this one, nobody else gets it. I don't feel stupid. It's like, oh good, it was that ambivalent that I just don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

No, this the uh so many things were abstract or left unknown that I I mean I don't know. I think we covered almost everything that I think we could probably for the narrative element. So if you guys don't mind, we'll go to the category ratings for this one. I'm gonna go first and then I'll call on someone to go next. Uh, for me, I gave this a three for this category because, you know, like we were saying, there are a lot of themes in this movie that's only an hour and a half, and I think that there's a lot of meat on the bone. And I do think the premise is interesting, and like Caitlin said, we're gonna get to this in the next category. Tilda's great in the movie. It's not a knock against her. I just thought that the plot and the characters and everything was a little too abstract to fully embrace and believe. The dialogue was ultimately very stilted at times, and I mean, maybe that's purposeful, I don't know, but I just don't really feel like things were fully fleshed out, and I just kind of kept thinking, like, is this really the plot twist? Because I kind of thought that like Kayla too, because we never see them in the same frames again, so that's usually like a sign for that when that happens in movies. So I don't know. I gave this a three, and I will go to Kayla next for her Raiden.

SPEAKER_05 38:49

I too gave it a three. Basically, same reasons, it doesn't really have a real plot. Like, okay, she goes to this cabin to deal with her grief, and she deals with her grief, so good for her. There is some character development, like there's an arc, she's a different person at the end than she was at the beginning, but I'm left wondering in this year of our Lord 2022 at this point. Why do we need this film? We've seen this done before so many times, we've seen it done in, you know. Well, I mean, if we're going for the whole she is her mom thing, we've seen it done in Fight Club, but if we're going for the whole her mom's not really there the whole time, then we've seen it done in Sixth Sense, like we've seen it done before, we've seen it done better. I don't know why we needed this movie, it doesn't change the genre at all. The dialogue was fine, nothing earth-shattering. I didn't think it was bad, but I didn't think it was like there's there's no memorable lines to quote or anything, so it was just fine. Therefore, I gave it a three because three is fine. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Fair logic. And you said that you pretty much agreed with everything I said, so how could I disagree with you, Calen?

SPEAKER_05 39:52

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Well, thank thank you for that. Uh Darren, what's your rate in?

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Okay. Um, for a film that relies on overarching tone and slow pacing to tell its uh story, it does an excellent job expressing the themes of grief and memory to depict a haunted woman and the metaphorical ghosts that inhabit her ancestral home. So I'm giving it a score of four in this category.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

Yeah, I agree with uh Nick and Caelan. I went with a three. It uh I uh like the people on Rotten Tomatoes, didn't love the the slow burn aspect. I do think, though it was a tight movie, there's things we could have cut from it, and uh I liked the twist at the end of of just her mother not being there at the dinner and questioning everything about what had transpired in the film, but that also completely threw off what I th what I thought I was getting from this film, and because of just a lot of the unanswered questions we've we talked about, it it it was good but not great. So three for me.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Great. Uh thank you guys so much for category one. It's in the books. Now we're gonna go to category two, and we'll take it over to Darren. So uh take it away, Darren.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Thank you, Nick. Uh the second category we'll be discussing is direction and acting, which is an absolutely crucial part of this film, particularly the director Joanna Hogg and lead actor Matilda Swinton, who plays both the lead character and her mother in the film. The film completes an unofficial thematic trilogy for Joanna Hogg, paired with the souvenir and the souvenir part two, her major breakthroughs in the world of indie cinema. While all three films are very distinct from each other, they all deal with the creative process and are strongly inspired by the director's personal journey as an artist. The bulk of the film is carried by Tilda Swinton, an Oscar winner and one of her generation's most acclaimed actors, who is perfectly cast as the grief-stricken lead character Julie Hart and the memory/slash ghost of her mother Rosalind Hart. While the film is nearly a one-woman show, there is a no notable supporting performance from Joseph Maydell playing a sympathetic kindred spirit named Bill. So what are everyone's thoughts on the direction and acting in The Eternal Daughter?

SPEAKER_00 42:06

I thought that this was actually the strongest category of the four for this film, just because it's like Caitlyn said earlier, that you have to have the right actor play the double role here. And I thought Tilda blew it uh out of the park here because it is really hard to play two different characters that are distinctly different from one another. And I think that is really what help excuse me, that's what helps make this film at least watchable.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Yeah. Yeah, this uh double the dual character thing is something that is either a home run or a strikeout. And uh, I mean it's kind of hard to strike out when you have Tilda Swinton, like is you know, one of the great actresses of the 21st century. And uh she she nails the role, I mean, you know, for both parts of it.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Yeah, I th I think so too. And actually they were talking about her process for this um in some of the interviews for the film. And actually Catherine Bray, who did the Guardian interview, was saying that Hogg would sit in on one half of the scene opposite Switon, and that would form the very early basis of the conversation, and then she would disappear after they tried it like that. And then Swyton would be filmed having a conversation essentially into thin air until they felt that she had you know the necessary material, and then they were put in hair and costume and makeup, and then they would, you know, film it all. Um and because it's such an outlined process, not really a script process, I thought that was also it made it even more intense to be playing two roles and sort of improvising with yourself after having these conversations. So she telescope was really just doing doing the most in this film, and I think it worked really, really well.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

And that technique is really interesting considering how autobiographical it is for Joanna Hogg for her to be playing not only a character who's based on herself, but talking to a character who's based on herself and her reaction where. She's playing her mother, or she's playing a figment of her her own imagination. It's like a Russian nesting doll type situation.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Exactly. So much complicated work.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

I think also for me with Tilda's performance, I think, like you were saying, Amanda and Darren, it's this idea, these hesitant speech patterns and pauses that she does, and a lot of restrained emotional expressions and her postures, like they're radically different characters. The more you think about it when you compare Julie and Roslyn. And I think that uh really helps, I think, like you were saying, become like the emotional anchor of the film. And I don't think it could work unless it's a really great actor playing these two roles. And also a theme that we didn't talk about, but I think it's crucial is like this intergenerational uh theme where you know it's like the old world versus the contemporary world. And I think that really helps with especially Switten's uh naturalistic acting style here.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Yeah, you definitely get more of that with with Rosalind and just the more kind of formable nature of how she speaks and carries herself, and it's definitely a bit more measured, also a bit more agreeable in in in in terms of how she responds to things versus versus Julie, who as I said is just very kind of tip of the skin, very more emotion, more outwardly emotional than her mother is.

SPEAKER_05 45:48

She's a chameleon. She be completely becomes this like quieter older British lady that you could imagine sitting down and having a conversation about the war about, and then also like she's the inquisitive younger daughter who wants to learn more about her mother, and you can believe both characters out of the same person. It's phenomenal. It's truly like a joy to watch. Like, I can imagine this being taught as an acting class, like this is how you should portray these two types of characters. It really is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

She's one of our best actors. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

Oh, yeah, for sure. I I thought Julie was the stronger of the characters because just because they felt as if Julie had more to do, and this is really her film versus Rosalind's Rosalind's really just the the vehicle to which Julie is able to work out a lot of the things that are happening.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

It's also yeah, a projection of her character. Um there's always going to be less individualistic uh characteristics from something that's like a projection of somebody else's uh views of the someone else rather than the internalization of themselves.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

I I I kind of agree with Amanda that I think that Julie's probably the stronger of the two only because there's a lot more muscle in that's happening here. She has to do a lot more expressions and emotions and uh yeah, I think that I mean they're both good performances, of course. I actually was also impressed with Joanna Hogg's direction in this film and how she was able to kind of create this landscape of this hotel. And like Kayla mentioned jokingly at the beginning that this felt like a COVID film because it absolutely does in so many ways. But I think the way that she is able to emphasize things like atmosphere and observation and ambiguousness, like that's really hard to do. And I actually thought she did a really good job for this slow burn type of film as well.

SPEAKER_03 47:48

She also just gives her character so much space for longer monologues to really sit in the silence and hear the weird sounds that are happening throughout the throughout the hotel. So I just I really appreciated kind of just the sometimes just pausing and letting things play out as opposed to having to rush from from scene to scene. So I I thought that that in particular was really a really great element of of her direction for this.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

She really emphasizes things like silence and empty spaces, and yeah, this helps create tension. And I think by doing that, also she's trying to like encourage us to think more critically about the things that are happening. So, like in this film, you know, things are not as what they seem, so it's really hard to kind of convey that sometimes without come across as hokey or manipulative or exploitative. And I thought she actually did a really good job of helping us blur those lines and making you feel like you were on the edge of your seat because I didn't really know exactly what direction the film was going in for most of it. I thought the other actors were also really good in their roles, too. Um fun fact, Caitlin, because we're and Amanda because we're both from Long Island. The guy who is the groundkeeper actually works a lot in New York and he has like a PhD in theater, and he uh is like one of those people that just does a lot of theater shows. Just a bad idea.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Yes. I thought he was uh he was the standout supporting performance for me. Yeah, I think that the the one he only has like the one major scene, but I it is really, really crucial uh to address the grief and the feelings in the room. I think that he does a really great job as a sympathetic type of character that uh she definitely uh relates to. So I think that he's uh like he's the more other notable standout performance. I don't think we've talked about him yet much yet. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Yeah, he just exudes this like uh friendliness, this kindness, and is going through something. Empathy so similar to to what they're dealing with. Uh I I I think he he was he could have been um I don't know, sometimes when you have these when you have characters like this, and especially if they're people of color that are supporting characters, they I don't know, they turn into just these weird kind of stereotypes of things, and he definitely didn't feel like that.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

The magical.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Yes. Yes. He has an Olivier Award winner, too, by the way. And he won it for his performance in Angels in America.

SPEAKER_05 50:27

Oh my god, that's one of my favorites. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

And he's been on different TV shows, uh like Homeland and a lot of British TV shows.

SPEAKER_05 50:39

Basically, he's been on Doctor Who because everybody's been on Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Yeah, I mean, the only other thing I've seen on his resume is like Prime Target, which was on Apple TV. Um, was that everything we want to cover for category two?

SPEAKER_01 50:54

I think so. Anybody else have anything? Okay. All right, and we'll go to the scores then. Um, I'll go first. Uh so uh between Joanna Hogg's excellent direction, the two performances from Swinton, and some fine supporting performances, I think that the direction and acting in this film is a highlight, probably the highlight of the film for me. So I'm going to give it a four.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Nick? Um, I also gave it a four. I this was, I think, like I said, the strongest uh attribute of the film was the acting and the direction. Hog is a stylist in the sense that she just knows how to command a scene and really know how to get all the uh things out of each uh things in the frame, like the set design, the costumes, the all that stuff. So she's really excellent at that. And the acting is fantastic from Tilda, and this porn cast is wonderful as well. Um I like this category the most for this film. Um Amanda, what is your uh rating for this one?

SPEAKER_03 51:58

So mine is uh is a four. Yeah, I think I think Tilda Swinton is incredible in this film and is is it is definitely probably one of the central reasons to see it. And I I think Germanna Hogg does a great job of just creating this very isolated, ghostly environment while that's also trying to explore all these things that she was going through at the time. And yeah, I I think she definitely does a great job, especially in a in a time during COVID when not when a lot of movies as I though this feels like a COVID movie, I think that's a good thing for for the type of film that it is. So so four for me.

SPEAKER_05 52:36

Yeah, four is across the board. I gave it a four-too. Same reasons. Basically, you know, it's a masterclass in seeing what Tilda Swinton can do, especially if you've never really had experience with her work before, and I have, but like if you're never if you've never seen a Tilda Swinton movie and you wanted to see how good she was, this is a good one. She is phenomenal in it. And yeah, I mean, everybody else that was in the movie did a fine job too, but obviously she has to carry the movie on her shoulders and she does it in spades, so she's just phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

Uh let's move on to category three, which is all about the visual and technical elements, and we will take it over to Kaylin to lead us off.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

Yeah, so we're gonna talk about cinematography, editing, special effects, costumes, production design, sound, and music. I personally don't feel like this movie had any of those things. So if anybody dares to disagree with me, by all means pop in and challenge me because I have nothing.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

Huh. What about the sound though? The the the you know, all the wailing, all the noises, the the techno music from the receptionist boyfriend.

SPEAKER_05 53:46

I mean, honestly, like the most striking thing in this movie was the fog, hell of a fog machine going on, but that was about it.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

It's probably just England.

SPEAKER_04 53:56

It's been rainy that week, you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

That week. Uh that that green. Um, I thought I thought that the movie uh did a great job with uh the atmosphere, um, creating like the the spooky haunted atmosphere of something that's just a little bit off, but um also it fit the tone of the movie. Uh I mean there's a lot of grief in the movie, and uh a lot of memories are an important theme, and I think that that is reflected in a lot of the sets and a lot of the audio cues and uh the uh the things that are happening in the background. I also think that the cinematography was pretty fantastic. I mean, all of the shots were really, really well framed and put together. And you know, you're always gonna have to have good editing if you're gonna have one character playing two one actor playing two characters that interact with each other. So I think they did a pretty good job on the technicals.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

I thought the cinematography was really good because Hog uses muted colors to her advantage in this film, and like Caitlin was saying about the fog. Now I'm gonna associate Caitlin with fog now.

SPEAKER_05 55:01

So I mean, I am half British, so go crazy.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

We're in a foggy state of mind recording this episode. Um, but it's important like things like fog, shadows, the light and cues. But I think what this also illustrates is the house is essentially its own character, too. Like, because even like Darren was saying about the sound, you know, we hear things like uh the creaking wood, we hear the knocking, we hear the wind, we hear things like that that feel like the house is telling us something to the film viewer, and I think that that's really strategic, and I think it actually works to the film's advantage to create this sense of tension and almost realism because we've all experienced these types of things. When I hear anything in my house, I think to myself, who is trying to get into my house? Or the worst case scenario. So I thought that that was some good attributes so far for this category.

SPEAKER_03 56:00

And Swin was actually saying about the sound. She said it was important that those gestures of listening are almost like she's trying to catch something, not just a sound, a memory, maybe a feeling or or a smell, or just something that was in the house. So I thought that that was a very unique way to to talk about, you know, how sound is is almost another character that is kind of in this this creepy entity.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

It definitely is, and I feel even the music is so good in this film, too. And I feel like it used pre-existent music, and I'm not even gonna attempt to remember which one it is, but I thought that the music cues were actually really strong. There's that one scene where she's walking up the stairs or going down the stairs, and they they play that music, and I thought it was actually really effective.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

Yeah, the flute throughout was was great, and I thought that really added a lot to it.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Yeah. Um someone was talking about, I probably should have said this for the last category, but I'll say it now. And I was kind of mentioning it in the first category, I think about something that was more tactical that I did not like about the film when they had both characters of Julie and Rosalind together, they had the back and forth shots, like it was almost like a tetra smash at some points, and it was giving me a headache. I actually wrote this movie is giving me a headache. Why can't they just either be in the same space together or just you know have the sh over the shoulder or something because it just felt like ping pong after a while?

SPEAKER_01 57:34

It wasn't quite Bohemian Rhapsody editing.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

It was also just a little too dark at times. I really had to lower the shades kind of thing to see everything.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

I'm so glad you said that too, because I watched in the afternoon after the movie club that I host, and I had to turn off all the lights, and I had to like put a blanket over the back window because I could not see. And I'm thinking, like, am I stupid or I can I just don't see it?

SPEAKER_01 58:04

It was definitely the outside scenes were rough for really catching out like no the the impression you get is that they haven't mastered indoor lighting in England yet.

SPEAKER_05 58:13

Yes, yes, agreed.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

Um yeah, fits the tone of the movie. If it was like you're really bright, it wouldn't have worked at all.

SPEAKER_05 58:22

What's really funny is like there's this one um, well, there's this one store and this one restaurant that I really love in New York City. The restaurant is Tea and Sympathy and the store is Myers of Keswick. And both of them, you could just feel like stepping into the house, the hotel in this movie, they captured that English quality very well because even though it's in New York City, when you step into both of those places, it feels like you're stepping into something in England. And I've never been to England, but you just feel that like England come over you. And you just felt that with this house. Like when they first settle into the room and the mom's like in the chair and getting all her stuff ready and she's unpacking and everything, and just and you can just feel the England of the room.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

Well, I don't I don't think you go to someplace called Tea and Sympathy and not feel English when you walk inside. I think that's just how it goes.

SPEAKER_05 59:05

This is true, yes.

SPEAKER_00 59:07

So speaking of the edit-in, um, did you guys what was okay? So I'm just gonna say this because, like, why not? I think that sometimes with the edit-in, I felt like it was, of course, deliberately slow because it's a slow burn type of film. Did I feel like I was missing a beat or two, or is it just me? Because it was so minimalist at times that I kept thinking, like, either the scenes last too long or they end too abruptly. It was it just me, I don't know. There are certain scenes I just couldn't like wrap my head around that. And I know why, in a sense, because it's like creating this stream like atmosphere that I think Hog is trying to incorporate throughout the film with these um types of beats and rhythms and whatnot. I just I don't know, maybe it's because I edit my shows now. I just think like an editor now, even when I watch movies, and it's for better and worse, because I just watch certain directors now, and I'm like, oh, they should cut more, like take out more, and it'll be a probably a better final cut. That's why my hot take with this movie is I think this would have been better as a short film than a narrative film, like a feature film.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:15

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, this definitely would have been a good short film.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

And I just think it goes on too long for the pails.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

I think this this may be one of the scenes you're talking about is when the when Louis the Dog sees is is looking through, or when she's or when um Julie is looking through that kind of shed thing outside when Louis the Dog is at when she's taking him for a walk, and then that scene kind of cuts away. I don't know. There were a lot of things where we got these ghostly elements that didn't necessarily have the payoff that I thought they were going to have, like when she puts Louie in the other room when she finds him and has the drink with Bill. It's just like it's just we we cut away from this random part of the hotel that we haven't really seen before. So just these smaller scenes in these haunted elements that didn't really go anywhere. And so maybe that was a problem with the editing, maybe it was a problem with the plot, but like the cousin at the end showing up.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:11

Like, what was the point of that? It was like get and then I figured because she's all like, get rid of him, okay. And then I'm like, okay, because he's gonna figure out that she's losing her mind and she's talking to herself, but no, that didn't happen, so it just felt completely that we could have done without that. Like, that didn't feel like it led to anything important.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Yeah, I I thought that was kind of mean. It's like someone really wants to see you. It's like, shoo them away. Do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:41

Well, that was another thing too, because like again, I was expecting them to reveal that the mother's dead the whole time, and he brings her the present for the mother's birthday. So I'm like, okay, huh? Because I'm convinced at this point that the mom is dead, so it's like, well, is he bringing the present like one of those things sometimes people bake a cake even though somebody passed on? Like maybe he's bringing a present to honor the I and then it seemed like the present really was for her, and that he was like aware that she was alive, but I didn't think she was alive, so very confused. Don't know what that was there for, didn't lead to anything at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

That's why I think what I saw earlier, I just think it's too abstract, and I think sometimes I think abstract things or abstract takes on things works to some films of age, like we just did the last film, The Call of a Sacred Tear. Like they don't tell us everything that's happened exactly or have to explain things, but at least it works because you're in the hands of a masterful director and you're going for that vibe. And I don't know if it's because we all like the director that it works better, but I don't know. I just kept thinking there's just something missing from the edit-in that I just wish it was just tighter. Because even for an hour and a half film, it's a long hour and a half. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

Yeah, no, it is. Yeah, short film definitely would have been so much better. Like a 30-minute, 45-minute short film would have tied up stuff a lot better, I think. And you would have still captured the ambiance, she would have still done a fantastic job with both roles, it just would have been shorter and more tight.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

Watch this film at 1.5 speed, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:17

And you won't miss much, it won't be creepy at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

Yeah. Uh, did we cover almost everything for visual tech? I think.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

Well, Caitlin, you're um the one who led it off. So we'll let you go first with your Raiden.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:31

So yeah, don't hate me. I gave it a one because for me there was nothing that stood out really except for the whole fact that it felt English, and it's like, okay, it's an English movie, it's supposed to, but there was no, I didn't. So I gave the scores the morning after I watched it, and nothing stood out in my mind. I forgot it had even had any music in it. The costumes like the dress that she wears at the birthday party was phenomenal, but other than that, it was like, okay, the yeah, nothing really stood out to me as being memorable or worth even talking about. So I thought we weren't gonna get any milk out of this category. So yeah, I gave it a one. What's going down for the complete opposite of me?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

All right. Uh I really liked the way that the uh spook spooky tone and atmosphere was incorporated to enhance the grief that serves as the core of the story, especially cre considering it it especially cre essentially created a haunted ghost story that doesn't truly have any ghosts or hauntings. Uh, I'm giving it a four in this category. Amanda?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

I gave it a three. I I think for me, the the star of the category is the sound between the the creepy sounds that you get in the in the hotel itself, too. I I really liked the techno aspect of the receptionist's boyfriend every time or whoever that was, every Alfie, I think was the name she referred.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:52

Every time he drove up, you just think to yourself, this guy is probably bad news just because of the techno music, even though we never see him.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:59

So I think I think the sound was doing a lot of a lot of work in this category, the cinematography I think is beautiful. That's those aerial shots of the spiral staircase are gorgeous. Um, so so yeah, it wasn't a perfect, perfect editing category, things like that, but so three for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

And I'll go last. Uh, I gave this also a three. I think that there were a couple things I liked, like Amanda said I did enjoy the sound. I thought that was the strongest element of the visual and tech category elements uh for this one. And I thought the production design was actually really good on this film. Like it had that ambiance and look of a late 19th century or early 20th century type of house like that you would see uh during wartime, like Rosalind's character experienced. Um, so it has that like faded aristocratic history and lore behind it. Um, but it's just the pays in man is so much of a slog at times, and you're just like, I like a slow bird. As much as the next person, but holy mackerel, um move it on up is what I say.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:06

So get to the point already.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:08

Just like they're saying right now, the listeners like get to the point, Dick. Um, but that's just my take. Um, and like Derek said earlier, the cinematography is really good too. So it's kind of like a seesaw kind of effect. Like some things I liked, and then some things maybe not so much. So a three. And we'll take it to Amanda for our last category.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Yeah, I I think besides the acting, this was probably the strongest category for me. The cultural and social relevance. Um, looking at timely enduring themes, social commentary, representation, and identity. So we talked a little bit about this stuff in the first um category that we that we went through, just the idea in terms of you know who has the right to tell stories for for other people, how memories impact us. I R Rosalind says to Julie at one point when she's relaying the story of one of her family members, she says, that's what rooms do they hold these stories. So, in terms of what a place can do for you in terms of memory. But I I think this category stood out the the most for me because I'm I'm currently resonating with with some of the with some of the themes of it. Um my co-hosts know, but my my father passed away very unexpectedly about eight months ago or so. And even though I have an older sibling, I'm closer to my mom geographically than than he is. And so the brunt in terms of you know, uh requests from my mom and just feeling like I have to be there for her and make her happy and care for her. A lot of the things that Julie is dealing with in this film, um, in terms of Rosalind are are are are very um resonant with me in terms of who is responsible for caring for aging parents and and who takes on those caregiver roles and just that relationship between mother and daughter as well. So um so that's why in particular um this this particular category really resonated. Um but I'm curious for others if there are themes or or there are things socially or culturally that rel that resonated as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:17

I thought it was pretty much an evergreen story, like you always want to learn more about your parents and their history and things like that, and sometimes you don't get a chance to learn more about them while they're still alive. So I definitely thought that that was resonating. I wouldn't say like superculturally significant, but I mean social relevance, yes. And that's pretty much where I land on that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:37

I think for B it boils down to I think if we're gonna argue that this film has the social and cultural relevance based on our parameters, I think it works if we think about generational communication, like you were kind of saying, Caitlin. And we're trying to think about what are the generations that they belong to and how are they shaped by the history, the context of who where they were. So, like the wartime experience, for example, really affects uh Rosalyn and how she has her relationship with her husband and her children. Um, and Julie, we could argue, is more introspective and um she's very emotional and uh all this type of stuff. But my point is is that it's these two different generations that are trying to like understand each other and you know they're trying to process it, and sometimes it works out well, and a lot of times it doesn't, or it's frustrating. So um it's all about trying to understand who your parents are and you know, trying to figure out why they are the way that they are essentially. Yeah. Um, Amanda, I think you mentioned about grief and aging, which I think is actually really an important theme of the film too. Um, I think that, you know, it shows like, for example, how like Julie is essentially like a caregiver in that sense. And like we were talking about earlier about things about like losing your family members and the dynamics between the parent-child relationship. I think that uh it just shows, like I was saying about the generational communication, it's this idea that it's just so complex, and there's really nothing simple in this film. And especially when we found out later in the film that really Rosalind is the figment of Julie's imagination in the hotel, you kind of think to yourself, what is happening here exactly? Like maybe there's more of like a psychological component. So maybe the Julie character is maybe has some psychological issues or needs therapy or something to kind of help her move beyond, you know, the trauma that she experienced with her relationship with her family.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:48

Also, with that birthday dinner in particular, that whole speech that she that Julie gives to Rosalind in terms of saying that she that one that she wasn't hungry unless her mother was hungry. So you just see that kind of dependence on each other and just trying Julie trying to anticipate needs for Rosalind. And then also as we were talking about, you know, at the at the start of the podcast, in terms of if this is a memory of a thing that actually happened or just a script that she's writing, but just Julie confessing to her mother, I just want to you know make you make you happy that this is the only thing that I that I want to do, and this has become a huge part of my life. And I think as as we're talking about in terms of just you know those those intergenerational dynamics and and caregiving and and elder care and and and whose and is it really the child's job, you know, to to to care for a parent and to make them, you know, safe and happy and and and things like that, sort of who whose whose role is that as you know parents age?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:54

It seemed very desperate too when she's all i it it feels like that's the moment where you know she's gonna crack and something is gonna happen that's gonna, you know, end act two or act three and then the day no more or whatever. Like you you can tell that she's getting increasingly desperate in that moment. And I thought it was an interesting choice to tell you that the mother wasn't there when she blows the candle out, because it's like it feels like it's a movie trick, but it's also like, was there a deeper purpose? Like when she blows out the candle, is it because she realizes that like if she doesn't blow the candle out, no one else is going to? But then there's also a lot of things that she does, like at the end you see her taking the pills and you realize that the mom was taking the pills, but really she's taking the pills. So there's some things that she does do physically that she would have to do for her mom. So blowing out the candle necessarily isn't another one of those things. So I was just curious as to why they chose that moment to be this is when you realize, like, oh, this is reality and my mom's not really here.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:46

I think it was a good time to reveal that um particular point. I just seemed like it was building up to something, and then uh you get the big reveal. So I think that that was uh probably the ideal time. Um you need like a moment that's notable and like the symbolic nature of blowing out a candle, especially out a birthday candle. Um yeah, and then revealing you know the truth of the movie. I think that that worked really well.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:14

Yeah, kind of like she can't really ever age because she's dead. So blowing out the candle is like kind of putting a pin in the hole, you can never have a birthday again because you're gone, I guess. So it did it it felt like a quietly beautiful moment, but I couldn't really grasp why.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:29

Could also be like her way too of I know Kaitlin, you mentioned this, you know, having a cake for somebody that's no longer here. Maybe it's more of a way to celebrate or mark a milestone for for somebody that's that's not with you anymore, some some kind of like doing a toasted champagne or something on a person's birthday who's passed. Or yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:50

I figured that's what the receptionist was thinking. She's watching her sing happy birthday and bring this cake in to somebody who isn't there, and it's just like she's probably like if she's rationalizing to herself, if Julie isn't actually actively looks mentally ill or anything like that, maybe she's just thinking, like, oh, you know, this is her doing a cake for her mom in honor of her mom or something like that to make it, you know. It could go either way, really, because you can't really interpret what's on her face if she's actually feeling like this woman crazy, or oh, I feel bad for her because you know she's honoring her mom who's not here, or whatever. It's another one of those things that I think is left up to interpretation.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:25

Well, did you also think of that scene too with the receptionist at the end that it was really weird because it was like the polar opposite of how she was throughout the entire film?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:34

Yes, and I feel like it was kind of not earned, like all of a sudden she's caring, and the whole movie she was not very like she was kind of hostile. And it's like, did she earn that whole it's like I said before, it's kind of trying to show you that Julie had a different perception of what was actually going on versus what was, you know, in her head going on. So I think maybe they were trying to tell you that Julie saw her as being hostile, but really she was compassionate. But I don't know if the movie earned that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:01

Or maybe she, you know, when she realized and pieced together what was going on, uh, she became more sympathetic and realized that uh you know she was being uh unpleasant at the beginning or something.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:13

Yeah, maybe like she had to come to terms with her grief, and then oh, she's actually grieving her mom, that's why she's like this. Like she doesn't mean to be abrasive, she's just kind of going through it right now. Like, yeah, that could also be it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:24

And also like the sounds in the hotel. Well well, one, I wasn't sure if Julie was the only one who heard them, and and two, was all the wailing and things like that just Julie crying throughout the entire film, which is which maybe the receptionist heard. Oh, I wasn't maybe that's what garnered more sympath besides her breakdown, obviously at the dinner, but maybe that's what garnered more sympathy because was the wailing something creepy, or was it just Julie crying? Yeah, I didn't even think about it the whole weekend that she was there when she wasn't working.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:00

I love how we're still discussing the plot, like so many categories later because nobody knows what happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:07

Joanna, give us a call. You you you can find us.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:10

Answer some questions, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:12

I I do think like the best thing about like getting a birthday cake for uh uh someone who is uh actually secretly a ghost is that uh after you blow out the candle, it's twice as much cake for you.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:24

I was just gonna say you can take the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:28

Yes, like whatever present you bought for the other person.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:32

Oh, I I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

Oh, just what I wanted.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

How did they know what I wanted?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

We have such similar taste.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:42

We have such insight.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

I'll wear it in your honor.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

I think we're good for this category, so we'll let uh rating for this category. Uh what do you what do you give this, Amanda?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:57

Yeah, I gave it uh it it got me it got me in the feels just because of just the the themes of of this movie and and the and the current state of affairs of of of my life, so I I gave it a five. Um I just I know I know by giving it the highest thing it's probably gotten this whole podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:15

It's the highest thing it'll probably get in this whole podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:18

Um yeah, I think the idea of you know whose stories do we have a have a right to tell, you know, as as a I I have a master's in writing, I'm a person who writes. Just that was that was always something we were negotiating with when I was in school, especially in a in a memoir capacity. And yeah, also just the things about elder care and aging and and who's responsible for taking care of people. And then also the theme of parents and children. I I think um an Indiewire review was saying that maybe the character of Julie feels like her films are her children because she doesn't actually have any herself, and that was a big thing um between her and her mother as well was just her lack of having children. So um so also that kind of parent, child, and and and and continuing generations. So so a lot of things were going on in that for me, so I guess that's why I gave it a five. Um Kaylin, what did you which what's your rating for this?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:24

So I gave it a two because while it is an evergreen story, it didn't seem like an earth-shattering one, and I didn't think that the social elements to it were all of all that memorable. Like I wouldn't put it up on a pedestal of like, here, this is a good example of I don't know, social reform or something. So yeah, I definitely thought that like being evergreen is important, but you know, it it didn't really strike me as being super, I wouldn't have to share this with anybody as an example of cultural relevance. So that's why I gave it a two. Darren, feel free to refute me.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:56

Close, but not quite as far down. Uh for probably the weakest of the four categories for me for this film, uh, as it is a deeply personal film to the director. And while I do find that the thematic elements have an overall cultural relevance that will always hold a universal truth, it's also something that has been explored a myriad number of times throughout entertainment and literature. So I'm giving it a three. Nick?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:20

I gave it a two. I think that this is the weakest of the four categories for me, just because I I mean, I appreciate by way, Amanda, what you said, because it's a deeply personal film. So I'm glad you felt that you know connection to the film. So I feel bad for what I'm about to say is basically what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:38

Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:39

But but I think it's just one of those things where because it's so personal to the story that the director is trying to convey to the film watcher or the film viewer, that I just kept thinking to myself, like Derek said, haven't we seen this done a hundred times and quite frankly, better elsewhere? Um, and I think that part of it too is that I thought the themes and the cultural social relevance factors were kind of low here. I don't know, it just didn't feel like there was much for me to grab given the parameters of our category. And yes, I do appreciate that you know, there's a woman director and you have Tilda Swinton in a dual role. So that has like nothing to do with that. It just felt like I just couldn't grasp on to anything to give it a higher rating than that. Um, so that's why I gave it a two.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:33

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I felt the grasping on thing. That's where I was like, well, I could give it higher, but two feels right.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:40

Yeah, that was my lowest rating, too.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:43

I know our scores almost matched.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:45

I know. Me and Caleb are like uh buddies in the on this podcast. We're just like, you know, a little bit higher, a little bit lower, but almost the same.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:53

It's the the scales of justice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:57

Well, we finish all of our categories. Thank you to our co-host for leading each part of our four category um analysis and uh deliberation, as we'll say on the podcast of our thoughts and whatnot. But I'm actually going to take it over to Darren, who's gonna tell us if this movie is A24 Essential based on our ratings. So, Darren, do your thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:22

All right. Based on the combined ratings for all four categories and the fact that none of the four hosts gave the film a total score of 16 or higher, the Eternal Daughter is not viewed by the reviewers on this podcast to be an A24 essential film, which requires three out of four reviewers meeting that threshold of 16 points. Darren and Amanda both gave it a combined score of 15. Nick gave it a 12, and Caitlin gave it a 10, giving it an average score of 13, which qualifies it as the second highest grade of almost essential. Overall, the Eternal Daughter is the third highest rated film of the three four films reviewed so far with a total score of 52. In comparison, the highest rated film overall remains Moonlight with a score of 77, and the second highest film, The Killing of the Sacred Deer, has a score of 61. The film ranks as the second highest rated film for Amanda, finishing between Moonlight and the Killing of a Sacred Deer. And the film ranks as the third highest rated film for the other three reviewers, with all three placing it below Moonlight and the Killing of a Sacred Deer, but above the lovers.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:30

You had a very high bar to soar over the lovers.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:35

You know, it was the one time of the show I cursed. Like I usually try not to curse on the show. Uh I was like the F and lovers. Um I'm not surprised by that, honestly. I actually thought it was gonna be a little bit lower for some reason. So I'm really surprised it was as high as it was. Because what'd you say it was a 13 out of 20?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:52

Yep, 13 out of 20 average. Uh it's it's difficult to give the lower scores sometimes when it's a well-made film. You know, yeah. Like if you're thinking, like, is this really one? Because you see a scale of one to five, it's like, you know, it's easier to give a five than it is to give a one, especially if it's a movie that is, you know, honest and sincere and not you know really bad. So I I I would definitely struggle to give pretty much anything a one so far, unless we like pull up something that is like really bad, like that one jellyfish movie that's supposedly the well, no, that's not A24, that's criterion. Sorry, that's like supposedly the worst criterion movie. So if it's something like that, that's the general thought. It's the lowest reviewed, it's in like every category.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:37

But that's it's Jellyfish Eyes that came out in 2013, and it is ooh. Who who paid Janice Films and Criterion all that money or whatnot? Because it is not a good movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

Um who paid them that and why is it Lena Dunham?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:00

I added that to my Criterion Scavenger hunt a couple years ago when watched it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:05

Oh boy. But yeah, it's it's it's really difficult for me to give like a one or a two to something that I think is like a really, really good. So I think that that brings like the average up, but it's never gonna that that kind of theory isn't never gonna be enough to get it up to the highest level where you average a four for all scores.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:21

I think if if you keep hitting fours on all the categories, that's how you get it to be a 24 essential. But if it's but if there's even a two, that will totally mess up. Oh, yeah. And I don't give up, by the way, for listeners, I just want to make sure they understand. I don't give ones unless it's like horrible. Like Darren said, like it's gotta be really a train wreck. Really down there.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:45

It's the bias of the one to five scale, I think. It's like people are usually very hesitant to give something the absolute worst score unless they really hated it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:55

But I think it's also the same because some people are also not us, I don't think, but it it people call speak as if they give something the highest score because you're so I think it could work both ways in a weird way.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:06

Yeah, it's weird with this for me though, because like when I when usually like on a letterbox, if I give something a one, it's because I despise it. But with this, when I give it a one, it's because it didn't like stand out to me for any reason. So it's not that I hated it or thought it was bad, just like it didn't feel memorable to me. So I give it a one, not because it wasn't bad, but just because right.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:25

But at the same time, it's like, you know, it's not like someone giving like a work evaluation where it's oh well, we can't give out too many fives. It's not like you give out as many fives as you want, but like it seems like people are more inclined on like a review scale to give the best possible score than the worst. Yeah, it's psychological theory. I'm thinking about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:44

Like this one, I legitimately feel bad giving a one for visual and tech. And I was thinking right up into the end, like, should I change my score? And I was like, no, because usually I I take a lot of care in the scores that I give. And if I give it a one, it's for a reason. And it's because for this, like, there were no special effects. I didn't think the costumes were super exciting. Like everything that was in the category did not stand out to me. So I gave it a one just because if you ask me tomorrow, what was the score? I'm going, mm-hmm. So if it doesn't stick out in my head, I'm giving it a one. And it's not that I hated it, it's just it didn't move me.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:14

So if you hear your dog barking at something weird in the middle of the night, that is that is definitely Joanna Hogg's had Tilda Swinton's ghost to come and launch your ass.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:24

That's just my dog because my dog barks at literally everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:28

Yeah, well, next time it's different. This time it's revenge.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

Sleep with one eye open.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:37

I didn't think this was a 24, so I had to really go back to my scores to be to say this is good, but is it it's not the best. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:45

Can I that's the thing too? Like when we say at the end whether or not something's essential, it's like would I throw down and argue the opposite? And it's like, no, I do not think that this movie is a 24 essential. I really truly don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:57

I'm still shocked they got a 13. I thought it was gonna be a little bit lower, like not lovers low because that barely got that was bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:06

That was yeah, yeah, that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:09

That I think got like a 9.2 or something, like something along those lines. I'm just saying, like it has to be like actively bad for it to hit that, but I think that I don't know. I think that it just falls into place. And my point was actually just gonna be that if I was reading this on letterbox, honestly, guys, I would have given a two and a half out of five. Personally, I think I did.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:31

I think I gave it a two and a half, give it like a three or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:36

Yeah, but it's really interesting when we do the ratings versus what I would actually give it on letterbox is not sometimes the same. Because I can even say, even if I don't like the movie, that it does hit the category. So what I'm trying to say is we're still trying to be objective on the show.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:51

Yes, yes, absolutely. Because I know like I take a lot of heat for my extremist views sometimes, but I promise you I am legitimately being careful with these.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:00

And like they're your opinions, you're entitled to that's why we all are on this podcast. So we'll have differing opinions and we can debate each other and you know what it think.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:11

Would it be bored if you all had the same opinions?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:13

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:15

If everything's essential, then nothing's essential.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:18

So yeah, very much. Yeah. So it's like it doesn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:25

Yeah. So it was almost essential. So it has that going for it. Yeah. And by the way, I forgot to say this in our opener, um, our first PG 13 movie that we have done for the show, and our first film by a woman director. So that's really cool to kind of articulate. Um, so thank you so much, Jared, for providing the uh the scores and all the things that you do to help keep the show going.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:53

Um, maths for the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:58

There's our numbers, guy, for sure. Yes. So are we ready to spin the wheel?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:05

Hell yes, we are. Yeah. Spin the wheel, spin the wheel. The wheel abides. We must do what the wheel says.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:13

So the only movie that we added since our last episode is Mother Mary. So that's it. Everything else is the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:24

So 18 Anne Hathaway movies that have come out in 2026 so far.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:29

Holy shit. I know her and said they uh are just like eaten this year.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:37

So you guys we heard of this time. Come on, big money, big money, no whammy's.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:42

Okay, let's go on. Five, four, three, two, one. Sharper is Damn it, what is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:04

I that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:06

That is a A twenty-four film that is on Apple TV Plus. So if you have Apple TV Plus, with Julianne Moore, Sebastian Stan, Justice Smith, John Lithgow. Okay, that's people we've heard of. And look at us, guys. We're in the 2020s again because this came out in 2023.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:28

And what's so funny? I just saw a poster yesterday that was celebrating all of Julianne Moore's movies, and I wouldn't know if this was on it because I've never heard of it. So that's kind of funny that we picked Julianne Moore the day after people were like celebrating Julianne Moore.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:41

She's so comfortable. I honestly can say I've never heard of this.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:45

Me neither.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:46

Wow, yeah. Wow. Uh so good. Uh this came out about three years ago, and it is only on Apple TV. So that's the only way you can get that. So do you guys have Apple TV? I do. I do. I do too.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:02

I am the only one who doesn't. I'll see if the library has it.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:05

Okay. There might be like a trial or something you can do.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:10

Yeah, probably. Use one of my many emails.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:15

So, okay, that's gonna be our movie for June. So, yay, we don't have to pay for a rental this time.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:22

So yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:26

Yeah. Well, you can't rent it technically. It's like either you get the Apple TV subscription or you don't.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:32

I have to pay for like the trial. So actually, I'm gonna check rate.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:35

Well, if it's a trial.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:37

Yeah, well, of course, it doesn't look like my library has it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:43

That we're gonna keep recorded just to see if Kaylin has it through her.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:48

Nope, my library does not have it. So I'm gonna have to trial it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:52

Uh with all that said, thank you all so much for checking out this episode, and thank you to our co-hosts for joining me, Darren, Amanda, and Caitlin. Uh, if you guys would like to follow the show, we are at 824 Carrot Gold with Carrot completely spelled out. Um, you can follow us on pretty much any social media platform. There's too many to list, but things like Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, you know, the whole shebang. So follow us on that. If you want to support the show on Patreon, help uh dependent podcasters like ourselves do that. So um we would love for you to join as uh a 24 karat uh gold member. So definitely do that. And if you liked this episode, give us a rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Let us know what you think, and yeah, we would love to hear your thoughts. Um, again, thank you to my co-host for doing this episode with me, and thank you to our listeners for checking this episode out, and uh, we'll catch you all next one.