The Lovers (2017)

This week, we’re discussing Azazel Jacobs' 2017 film, The Lovers. 

Join Nick, Darren, Kailyn, and Amanda as we evaluate the film in our attempt to answer the one big question: Is The Lovers an A24 Essential?

Then, stay with us as we spin the wheel to reveal next month's selection!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of A24 Cara Gold. I'm your co-host Nick Bambeck. We got Kaylin, Darren, and Amanda. I hope you all are doing well today. Yo, all right. Hello. Yes, our guests, our guests, our co-hosts are so happy today. And I am looking forward to talking about the lovers from 2017. So without further ado, we are going to take it over to Amanda, who's going to give us some background and context about the movie. Take it away, Amanda.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

All right. Uh, just giving some quick, quick little facts here first. So the lovers came out in 2017. It was directed and also written by Azazel Jacobs. The producers are Ben LeClaire and Chris Stinson. The actors are Deborah Winger, Tracy Letz, Aiden Gillian, Ballora Walters, Tyler Ross, and Jessica Sula. The music is by Amandy Hoffman, and the cinematography is by Tobias Datum. We could not find a budget for this one. It probably was a very small one considering what happened in the film. So no budget this time. In terms of the box office, domestically, it made a little over 2.1 million. Internationally, it made a little over 21,000 for a total of a little over 2.2 million. And in terms of the background, this film was distributed, produced, and financed by A24. And coincidentally, we're doing this after Moonlight. And this was the second film to be fully financed by A24. Jacobs actually credits A24 for allowing him to have full control over the film. And he, when he did an interview with WAMC Northeast Public Radio, he actually said his idea for the film came because he was interested in couples in their 40s and was around lots of people ending relationships and people who he thought were strong couples. And he was working with this idea for the film that your love is true no matter where a couple ends up at a particular moment. So that was the big idea behind this film. And how Deborah Winger actually got involved was she initially liked Jacobs' 2011 film, Terry. And Jacob said that Winger actually stopped him at a Q ⁇ A for Terry in New York and then wrote him a handwritten, handwritten letter and said if there was a chance for them to work together in the future to let her know. He pitched her many things over the years and she was very choosy in terms of what she would commit to. And he originally wrote The Lovers with her in mind, even if she chose not to do the project, but she decided to go for it once he sent it over. And Tracy Letz was saying that he really liked the script and the conversation that he had with Jacobs. He liked the idea of people being sexually adventurous at the age that these people are in the film. But he also liked that they were very lost as well and that nobody really had a set path that they were on. And he also liked that the character that he would play would be a, as he said, a departure from the intimidating assholes and suits, essentially, that he normally plays. Jacobs had this film filmed in Santa Clarita, and they did that for financial reasons, but he also thought that's where maybe Mary and Michael would have ended up to raise a family. And this film was also influenced by a lot of the films Jacobs watched growing up, specifically the 20s, 30s, and 40s. He said that this film really starts where some of his early influences from that time period ends. So you can picture this film even months or decades, you know, after those that he had watched. It premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival in April of 2017, and it opened in a limited release in about four theaters on May 5th and eventually made it to a little over 400. Lots of critics gave it very high scores, like The Guardian and the Chicago Sun Times. A theme throughout a lot of the reviews was the praise for the performances of Lutz and Winger. Time even called them Marvelous. It currently has an average IMDB score of 6.1 out of 10 and a Letterbox score of 3.2 out of 5. Compared to what we watched for our last podcast with Moonlight, not a lot of people have seen this film. The rating on IMDb is only a little over out of 4,000 votes or so. While on Letterboxd, a little over 8,000 people watched it. And there are maybe over 2,500 audience reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. So it's not a really big cross-section for this. And just a general summary of the film Jacobs describes it as a couple who cheat on their lovers with each other. And that's essentially, you know, what the film is about. A husband and wife have been separated, but they're still living together. They've each been having long-term affairs. They reconnect and come back together as their son is going to visit with his girlfriend. And they ultimately have to decide at that time do they finally separate fully or do they, you know, decide to come back together? So I I will ask people if this is a first-time watch for anyone. And also, how did you go about watching the movie? Did you did you rent it? Did you get it from the library? So curious to hear from my co-hosts.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Uh this is not the first time that I've watched this. It's actually the second time. I watched it previously on the Criterion channel. This time I missed it while it was on a lot of the streaming services where it left at the end of February. So I did watch it early this month and I rented it off of Amazon Prime.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Actually, to make Darren laugh for a second, me and Darren used to do a leave-in at the end of the month thing together. And I remember we watched this movie about what was it like two years ago, give or take?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, two years of one of our picks.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Because I remember watching on the Criterion channel. And uh so it's funny that this is how we watch the film. So second time watch for me. But what's weird about this movie is when we pick movies for this, which are by the way randomized. So it's really a coincidence that we did Moonlight, then the Lovers for our first and second official episodes, is that this was on 2B, Roku Channel, Prime, Canopy, Hoopla. And then it just left all the subscription based channels. Yeah. They were like February is for lovers, but not for March, really, apparently. So they just wiped it out. So you had to rent it, like I think you and Darren had to do, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Yeah, I rented it on Amazon. Um, was it was a first-time watch for me, and not a film I had ever heard of before we brought it up on the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So the wheel had spoken that night about a month ago. So I got my copy. They luckily had a copy through my public library. So I was probably the first person to rent it in, I don't know, eight years. If you ever are curious, folks, as a librarian, I can tell you this, you could always ask, what was the last time that this was checked? And they'll tell you. So, you know, these so apparently at my library, this was the first time in like eight years that someone had checked this out.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Still has the plastic on it.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

It's a little believable as we get into it. Yeah. They're like, You want the lovers? Are you sure? For free. Yes, it was a first time watch for B.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

I also borrowed my copy from the library as well, and I had to send a screenshot to everybody because I thought it was hilarious. I don't know how many people reviewed it on the library's website, but whoever did review it and gave it a half a star. So I was like, oh, I'm in for a treat. But yeah, I probably wouldn't have been able to get it on any of those other services. But because I have the memory of a goldfish, I like to watch the movie much closer to when we're gonna record our episode. So I did have to borrow it, but thankfully the library had it. And yes, this was a first and last time watch for me.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah, I also don't think there's much rewatchability here.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Oh no. Um I have thoughts for B, I think that it's interesting because with the libraries, you could easily get a lot of these movies. And it's weird because this was also at a time like Lionsgate, for example, distributed this movie, so did uh Moonlight. So correct me if I'm wrong, Caitlin. Don't they distribute their own movies now, like through A24's website? They don't allocate it to like Universal or Lionsgate or any of those anymore, right? So this is also kind of like weird.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

I believe so, yeah. Because I was actually really surprised to see Lionsgate at the beginning of this, because that was my go-to studio before I really realized A24's potential. So I was like, oh wow, A24 plus Lionsgate, this has to be great, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah. My reaction last episode said everything. As the editor, I was like laughing, but I was like, oh no.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

We all, we all, we all figured it out pretty quickly, I think, after after we started watching it.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

The wheel let me down. But we haven't gotten to the movie yet. Uh thank you so much, Amanda, for that summary that added a lot of things I really didn't know about the movie. And I've seen surprisingly very few of Jacob's movies. It was definitely informative, at least for me, because I really had no idea that like Deborah Winker had seen the movie that he did a couple years before and wanted to work with him.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

But also not immediately jumping at everything he gave to her, I thought was also really interesting. But it it was very clear that she wanted to keep this relationship going and they luckily found a way to make it work.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

So now I know Tracy Lett's. I'm sorry to jump in, but this is just something I have to ask. Isn't he more known as like a writer or like a playwright? Or am I going crazy?

SPEAKER_04 9:57

Yeah, that's kind of what more what I know him from uh as opposed to and I and I don't really I think I don't understand as much the kind of assholes and suits kind of comment because I I think I've seen him in such a wide variety of roles. But but yeah, I he's more kind of known for the writing side of things.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Well, he won the Polter Prize, I believe, which is like the highest award you could get.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

And this is very play-like, so that definitely tracks.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Yeah, yes. I think it was for August Osage County. Osage County, yep. Or Osage County. I knew that name, but I didn't think of an actor. And I saw him on the cover, and I'm like, who is this guy again?

SPEAKER_04 10:36

I don't think of him for acting either. It says it was it was interesting that that's really that's his primary function in this film. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

I think now we're gonna get into the categories if we're we're ready for that. So, Amanda, you got the narrative elements aspect, so we'll let you take the lead on that.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Yeah, of course. Um, so in this category, we're looking at things like plot, story, character development, and dialogue. And I have a couple questions for my for my co-hosts after I after I get into it. So a lot is packed into a very tight runtime for this film. This film only runs for 94 minutes, and we get right into the action immediately. In the first scene, you see Lucy crying and Michael trying to comfort her. And Lucy is the long-term person that Michael has been having the affair with. And in terms of how the film progresses, you have um Michael and Mary, who are husband and wife, who have been having long-term affairs, and they're really painted in these kind of parallels to one another. We see scenes of Mary and Michael both telling their partners they're going to be able to fully be with them after their son um is done visiting. And then we also see them in their respective offices. So we see a lot of this back and forth between their lives as this as this film progresses. And their partners even seem very similar, like they're in parallels to each other. They're both very devoted to Michael and Mary, even though you know they haven't actually been able to be with them fully because they're still married, and the affairs both unravel at the same time as Michael and Mary come back together, and all this crescendo is really in this final scene in Michael and Mary's house where their son Joel is visiting, and there's this confrontation in terms of the affairs. So here is here's where I'm getting a little bit to my questions because the sequence of events and and the timeline for this film was very fuzzy for me. It seemed as if the affairs had been happening for a long time, but we're not quite sure how long. And then also when Mary and Michael finally get back together for the first time and they sleep with each other, I'm also not sure how long that that it's not really an affair because they're husband and wife, but I'm really not sure how long they've come back together throughout the course of the film as well. At one point, Lucy says when she suspects that he's back with Mary, that it's been he's been distant for about a week, but that's also not very clear. So the sequence of events was was really strange. And then also because of all these parallels between the characters, they don't seem like full people. Robert, for example, which is which is Mary's um partner that she's having the affair with, who's played by Aidan Gillian, uh, he really just seems like half a person. I didn't fully know what he even did for work for a long period of time until I read an interview about it where it said he was a was a writer or a playwright. We mostly just see him in the bar with with Mary. So it's not very clear what what he does. So so my two questions for for people are one, did you also have timeline confusion in terms of the multiple or singular affairs that were happening in this movie? And then two, did you get a sense of who these people are? Because I felt that that was definitely lacking in the in the character development area.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I don't think I had any confusion about the timeline because I just kind of assumed it's all happening at the same time. Like this shows me this is like, I don't know, maybe like a month uh of their life or something like that. Like they've all had these established relationships and then they're separate, and then they get back together while still being with their partners, and then the son is coming to visit. So maybe it's not even a month, maybe it's more like a week, because I mean they're talking about this event like it's imminent, you know. But obviously, yeah. And as far as the characters go, I yeah, you're right. You know, the main characters are way more developed than the uh the secondary characters. Like the main two are well developed, and the other four characters are not at all. I mean, you only know a snapshot about them, and even if they're supposed to be like pretty significant figures in the movie, yeah. I never really got the impression that uh you get to know much about them. Although I did pick up on the fact that he was some sort of uh actor or writer or something because you know they were like reading scripts and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

I think for me, Amanda, it wasn't so much the timeline because I thought that was actually pretty linear for the most part. I think it's just like emotional continuity that it kept getting confusing, at least for me, especially at the beginning, because we see Michael and Mary with their lovers. So it's a little confusing at first, at least as the watcher, to see who is cheated on who and who's the established couples. And it took me a minute maybe to realize that uh it's Michael and Mary who are married. And I feel like um it kind of almost throws you into the middle of their affairs, and I think that's where, at least for me, the confusion lied because there's like this distortion that I think that's at stake. But I think that's also intentional on Jacob's part because I think he's trying to kind of just make it seem almost like a slice of life, like things that happened in real time. Because essentially they're doing like a separation plan in from the very first moment of the film, really. We really don't have that context. We're kind of just going right in. And I don't think we see them together, Michael and Mary, for like maybe the first 10 minutes. It's a pretty decent amount of time that the married couple's not even on screen together.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Yeah, you show them like separate with their various partners, and then and then a little later you see them together. But I yeah, I I think that's also where I just I knew that this was a long-term thing for both of them, but I just I don't know. Had it been years? I mean, I'm assuming so, possibly. Um, you know, I think that was also where I I just wanted a little bit more meat on the bone situation for that.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Who do you guys think had the longer affair, Michael or Mary? Do you judging by the affairs in the film?

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I feel like they were both about the same. Probably, or maybe Mary's affair was a little bit longer. It seems like it's a little bit more stable.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

I got the impression that Mary's was longer for some reason because Robert kept saying that he's tired of waiting and this and that, and he was very verbal about that. Lucy, it just seems like it's rushing the relationship almost, like on speed. Yeah. I don't know. That was the impression that I got from that. She seems less patient, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Lucy is such a strange character because I even wrote in my notes like she's supposed to be in her, I'm guessing, 40s, because I'm guessing it's kind of odd that he said that he was interested in couples in their 40s because you know they're in their like 50s, 60s. So like moving lower by going for her, and she's obviously like 40s, and she's acting like she's like 16. So it was a very strange going on with this girl.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

Yeah, she did act like she was 16 most of the time. And so and some of her things did add, I think, a lot of humor to the film, which you you kind of needed in this type of film because it was so serious. But then also she was really intuitive, she knew immediately that something was happening between Michael and Mary because he had been so secretive. And maybe she's just kind of paranoid all the time that he's secretly, you know, stepping out on her and and things like that. But it seemed like right away she clocked it, which added maybe a slight bit more to her than than I thought initially, though though not much. She's also just a very paper-thin character.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

It felt like both of them too. They both kind of clocked at some well, I mean, obviously, if you're dating somebody and then they're acting a little weird, you're gonna notice, especially if you've been together as quote unquote long as these side couples have been together, but it also feels like everything happened at the same time. They both figured out that something was going on and they both had to- Well, that was the thing.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

It just was so everybody was doing the same thing all the time. And that's why I thought, uh, like there's a lot of parallels, but there's also it's annoying because they're it's it feels like they're the same people. Like the like the lovers themselves, you know, Lucy and Robert feel like two sides of the same coin just slightly toned down of each other.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Yeah, because it was like one scene you have one of them confronting um god, one of their names, Michael's girlfriend confronting him, and then like in the next scene you have Mary's boyfriend confronting her, and it's like, really? Would that really happen? Like next to each other?

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Ver very much the authorial hand of God, you know, pushing the narrative in the direction it wants to go and creating coincidences.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I I think with Lucy, I think to be of the four main characters outside the son and his girlfriend, which I have thoughts on them, but I think that Lucy is, I think, the least interesting of the four, just because I think everything that she wants, she wants stability, she wants warmth and this uh future with Michael, right? But because I think with both Robert and Lucy, they basically want um like an expiration date on this marriage. Like they're like, please rush it because I am tired of waiting for you. And I think by doing that, it's really she's the one not really playing the game, really. I mean, you know what I'm trying to say? I feel like Michael and Mary treat this almost like a game in a weird way, and the other people that they're having the affairs with are just along the way. But I feel like with Lucy, it's more about like the desire for Michael. He's so indecisive that I think that he really doesn't know what he wants. He's passive, he's very insecure, avoids conflict. He wants attention, he wants uh admirably, but I think he also doesn't really confront his problems either. I think that's the problem for him and Barry, but that's just me.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Well, that's one thing that puzzled me about both relationships. They even wrote down, why are you even with each other like on the side? Everybody is miserable. Nobody is feeling passion with the boyfriend or girlfriend while they're miserable in the marriage. They're miserable in the marriage and they're miserable with the significant others. Why are you fighting so hard to be with that person? Number one. And number two, once they realize that you guys are kind of like getting back together again, why the hell are they still with the boyfriend? It made no damn sense.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah, I mean, they're reaching out for security because the married couple can always get back together and with zero literal effort. Whereas the couple that you requires you to actually get separated and divorced, those individuals are never going to feel secure until it's the deed is actually done. It's like some people are operating with a net and some people aren't. So of course they're gonna be anxious about it.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah. I guess the the way the movie was put together is like, okay, like they have their people on the side. Oh, they woke up and they realize that they're back in love with each other. Okay, well, then surely this will now blot the rest of the story will blossom from them realizing that they're in love with each other. But no, we're gonna go back to their scenes with the boyfriend and girlfriend because they've been together so long that they can't possibly kill those relationships either. And it's just like what it did not follow the typical path you would expect a movie like this to take.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah, it's not terribly coherent.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

It's not. And I also thought that most, especially with Michael and Lucy, that most of the relationship was just physical. That was it, which is also uh the confusing part for the timeline, too, for me, because at one point he says, Let's do something we've never done. More let's do something datey. Let's go out on a date. I'm thinking these people have been together probably maybe years or something, and they've never gone out on a date somewhere. But that just that seems a little odd. So that's why I just didn't know where we were.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Maybe they were cheating at first or something before they had like an understanding, and that's why they couldn't do daty type stuff.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

Yeah, I don't, I don't know. That that that like threw me off even more in terms of where these people came together and when.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

You bring up a good point though, Amanda, because Michael wants the physicality of the relationship. Maybe he's literally in a towel. By the way, if you ever want to see Tracy Letz in a towel multiple times in a movie, this is the movie for you people because you get to see that dad bod on full display, and Deborah Wanger cannot help herself. But the you brought up a good point because he wants that physical aspect, right? But I think Mary, who's Deborah Winger in this movie, she wants more of the emotional side of the relationship. She wants someone to talk to, to be seen, and to just feel like she is an intellectual equal, I feel like, in many ways. What they both want are two different things. And that's why, to me, the turning point of the film is when they're in the kitchen and they kiss, because I don't know how much time it is, but I'm just gonna assume that they had not been intimate in a long time. So I guess it was just this uh moment that they just were like, you know what, we're gonna be late for work, but you know what? It was worth it.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

You know what it was too? It felt like everybody in this movie was married to each other for too long. Like the side hustles and the men, the main couple, everybody just needs to like throw everybody in the garbage and start over again. Like, there's no passion among anyone in this movie, even if they are together for just physical reasons. I don't see it.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

There wasn't any passion unless it was sneaky. Like that's the thing. When they thought they were doing something that they shouldn't be doing, that's when maybe that's what they're into. Right, that could be.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

They love the idea of cheating, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Like a psychological mind, you know, F-word. Thrill. Yes. Um, so something that I did notice, and I just want to get your guys' take. That's a theme of the film, I think, is this idea of work, because that was one of the things that I used to write about and talk about a lot in movies. And I feel like it's really interesting if we think about their work as part of their identity in this movie. But they both have office jobs, and it's really interesting contrast too. And we can even compare it to their relationship because he's always late, or he's trying to like do all these things to not get caught, and he's behind on his sales compared to the other salespeople. But she seems to be in charge of meetings and projects and take an ownership and being an overall boss, that's almost coincides with their marriage in a way. So I don't know if you guys felt the same way or probably.

SPEAKER_04 24:49

Yeah, I think it was really interesting just how Michael reconnecting with Mary kind of pumped him up in every aspect of his life, including work, because there's the scene before I think before they get together where he goes to his cubicle and he just screams for a little bit, and you just see a a person as as you were saying, Nick, that's just very defeated and has essentially given up. And and maybe that's true. Maybe that's why the marriage really wasn't wasn't working before. And and that's something I think that Robert also brings up in the latter part of the film is has Michael really changed, or is he just showing you the version that you want to see?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I think that's a good point because also with the office aspect thematically, and we can talk about this more with the visuals. I think what Jacob says is really well is these like enclosed spaces, right? Like offices, houses, even the house, I'll get to that just now. It's very claustrophobic, right? Even the cubicle and the workspace and their house, it's very weird. It's not open at all. These early to mid-20th century California houses that there's a lot of walls and barriers between them. And I think we could read that metaphorically, that this is also part of their life, really, right? Because I think what they both get off on really is that it's also the sense of familiarity with one another. They just do things because they do it, right? Like we're just married, we just go to work. They don't really critically think about why am I unhappy or what it makes me happy. And I think that's partly where I think the conflict comes with their relationships and even maybe with workload, more with him. But I don't know, that's just the way I read it.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

All of the sets seem designed to make them feel trapped.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yes, I think that that's very true. Like this like middle class, because they're not upper class by any means, and they're not lower class, so they're kind of have this middle class stability to them. They are having an existential crisis, I would argue.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

Yep. And that's why Jacobs, too, as I said in my interput them in Santa Clarita, because he was thinking that's probably where they end up in their in their life. And you can, and he also said people can say that they did everything right, and putting that in in air quotes in terms of they had the jobs, they had the kids, things like that, and then still for some reason it just they had this middle class life, and still for some reason it just doesn't work out for them. And I think that that is a sometimes a very universal thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Definitely one character that I thought was actually the most interesting. I wrote this out of my notes. My notes were kind of wild. I should take a picture of send them to you guys. Uh, I thought the character Joel, who is their son, was by far the most interesting character, and I don't think it really picked up until we saw him on screen. And he comes in uh well over two-thirds of the movie. And I I don't know if you guys had uh thoughts on Joel because I feel like he's such an interesting character.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

I was mentally checked out by that point, so I honestly wasn't paying much attention to Joel.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

But he brings up these parallel things that they are two sides of the same coin because at one point he just says they're you know evident hypocrites, they're the same, they're both doing the same thing, and they just have to either break up or stay together, and just that's it. And otherwise they're messing him up and and then voice of reason.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yeah, I don't know. I thought he was kind of a weak character as well. I just really didn't, you know, he he was just annoying and whiny to me, and I didn't really think he added much to the movie.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

See, I disagree because I feel like he is the collateral damage of their marriage, like he is like the direct result of the years and years of toxic home life that he had, the relationships that are completely broken, and he doesn't really even know how to communicate with them, really. And I feel like even like the moments in the film, like the the supermarket when they're trying to pick out foods, and they're kind of doing this psychological uh screw it up the mind, or like they're overcomplicated because they're like, Oh, is he a vegetarian? Is he not a vegetarian? We're gonna make all these options, and it's gonna make him mad because he has an angry character, like he literally punches a wall at one point and destroys things. But I think with him, it's also this aspect that it's because he doesn't know how to get his emotions out because these people have never heard of, I don't know, therapy. It's just really odd to me. And I feel bad for the girlfriend too, because that's weird as hell to be in the middle of this.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

When the parents are fighting and you are not even married to the guy. Oh, it's the worst.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

I I guess she was really there to make him feel better. And I guess as a plot device, so it wasn't all really dark, but she was she was another per she seemed so sweet and so friendly, and but it just it was another character for me that fell really flat.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

See, I thought she was interesting because I think she was one of the few people like they tried to know get to know the people beyond that. She tried to like talk to the f um Michael about his band and the music. They keep their cards close to their chests when it comes to talking about themselves because he didn't even really want to talk about the the band, really. He's like, Oh, yeah, that's in the past. It's these things that ultimately to the blow-up with the sun. I don't know. It's just one of those things where I feel they're almost like the antithesis of Michael and Mary, or it's really what Michael and Mary were like when they first started dating. So then you're thinking to yourself, is this also gonna lead down this rabbit hole where he's eventually gonna turn into his mother and father? Like, you know what I mean? So it's really interesting how they were portrayed almost like the opposite of them. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

And thinking about it too. Do you think maybe, and this is probably deeper than the movie was even thinking, but that's me for you. Do you think maybe they made Joel an angry character? Because if they are doing that thing where they're showing you like history repeating itself, do you think maybe that is possibly what kind of led to Mary and Michael's not necessarily separation, but basically separated while living together? Maybe he was an angry guy, and the son picked up on that because generally you do tend to emulate the actions of your parents. Maybe that's what kind of led to them, you know, not really caring about each other anymore. And maybe now in his older age he's chilled out a bit, and you know, but again, that's probably deeper than the movie is thinking.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yeah, I think that they just never heard of therapy, these people or divorces. I don't understand. The lotus would have been just solved with a visit to your counselor.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

One visit, like y'all leave each other and start over, you're done here.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

I like to use my wrestling references, put them in a seal cage match, let them fight, and whoever's the winner, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Grab a metal chair and the sun will win.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Oh man. Was there anything else we wanted to add about the narrative elements?

SPEAKER_03 31:32

I don't think it looks terrible.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

No, we went way deeper than I think the movie has ever been. We do tend to do that. We are we are pretty amazing. 24 caracold. So, Amanda, would you like to start off with our scores?

SPEAKER_04 31:47

Yes. So, my score for this category was a three out of five.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

That's higher than I thought you were gonna say.

unknown 31:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Overall, I found the narrative elements to be rather confusing as characters seem both set in their ways, but also inconsistent, particularly towards the ending where it seemed like the main characters are gonna get back together only to see them happily reunited with their new partners, leaving me to believe that they would continue all of their relationships without establishing some sort of arrangement that won't eventually lead to hurt feelings. I did enjoy the dialogue for the most part. It's a very well-written script. Uh, I'm gonna give it a three.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

I am giving it a one, and I usually don't go that extreme, but this movie bugged the crap out of me. I thought the plot was stupid, which I know sounds like completely we've we've hashed it out. It sounds shallow to say, but I thought the plot was stupid. I thought the dialogue wasn't that great. And honestly, like above and beyond, I didn't think there was really any true character development. Like generally, now I've watched so many movies, thanks to our film club, that I've really picked up on the person you meet at the beginning of the movie should be a completely different person by the end of the movie. And by the end of the movie, they really haven't learned anything, they really haven't strengthened or weakened really as characters. There's been no generally no significant change in them that warrants. Like, I found myself asking, like, why did they make this movie? What was the point? What are they trying to say? Like, there was I couldn't place what the what the necessity of a movie like this in the ether is. So for me, it's a one.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

I gave this movie a two for this category. I think for me, it boiled down to something similar, Caitlin was just saying about how these characters really didn't develop or grow, which is maybe part of the movie. I kept asking myself, watch this movie again, and I have thoughts on this, I'll say to the end, is that I don't really understand what we're trying to watch here. Are we just trying to watch a slice of life of marriage? Or I don't know what the reason for this movie is sometimes. If we're looking at through our score system, I think that, yeah, there are some really great things that's going for like thematically. Um, but I think what hurts it too is just these characters. I just I wish they were more interested. I don't really remember them really, even from the two years ago that I watched it with Darren. And I really haven't thought about them since until we spun the wheel last month. And I will probably forget them again after we're done with this episode. So that's why I gave it a two. And also the dialogue isn't really that great either. I don't know. I was just a little turned off by it.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

So to be fair, this movie turned me off of watching any movies for a couple of days.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

To be fair, I got a text from Kaylin last night that said, I almost quit movies for a while, quote unquote, because of the lovers.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Oh, one is so low.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Man, considering it's actually that would be a travesty.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

So good, good. So we finished up category one. Now let's go to category two.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

So for category two, we have directing, acting, and casting. And for this one, I think we have really discussed a lot of this already, but just for my two cents, I feel like honestly, like the main characters are realistic. I'll give them that. Like, I mean, the actors look like they're in the age group that they're supposed to be in. I don't, I mean, except for the girlfriend, I think that was very silly. Like, what are we going for there? As far as the direction of the film, I felt like the pacing was really hard to follow. Not necessarily like the time jumps. I think I didn't really think about it all that much, to be honest. It was just like, all right, yeah, this is happening within what, a couple months or something. But I think the pacing of it was just kind of terrible. There's one scene where Michael's pouring wine, and it just felt like, why are we watching him just pour this wine for five minutes? Some of the phone calls that he's on, it felt like it was improv. So I know I I took improv in college and I remember them saying, you can't just leave those pauses like you're taking like a real phone call. You have to, that's why sometimes in movies phone calls just seem so unrealistic because you have to keep pushing the narrative. You have to keep it going. He would literally wait and you would imagine what they're saying on the other end of the phone. I'm literally watching like an eight-minute phone call in real time, and I want to die. So like the pacing and the and the direction, I just I did not, I was not a fan of it. And again, I didn't know why they made this movie. What are you trying to tell us? What why is it important? And some of the framing in the film I thought was kind of clumsy. So yeah, I that's yeah, those were my opinions on the direction and yeah, the casting. I thought, like I said, oh, and also to the boyfriend. What's his name again?

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Robert.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Thank you. I can't remember anybody's names in this movie. He just seemed like almost like who does he? He reminds me of one of those side characters in like a teen comedy movie that is just whiny and has like everything that he says is just like forgettable.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

Like you fell asleep during my screenplay for whatever thing I'm writing or playing.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

Yeah, like all I think the casting was so much better for the main couple than the side hustles because it was like, what are we doing with these people? So yeah, though those are my two cents on those things.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

I'm gonna never get a chance to say this again, but there's a moment in the film towards maybe the middle or towards the end, just to add to Robert. He I guess is Irish in real life, and I guess his character is supposed to not be Irish because it's a very American accent.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Oh, did it?

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yes, absolutely. Because I I wrote in my notes, I was like, did we just get all English and Irish on us? Is this why she wanted to have the affair with him in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Oh, but see, like he has this deep backstory because he grew up in Ireland in poverty and then he moved to America.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

No, no, it's a little bit of a waste of eating Gillian, I would say. He's he's very good, and and you see a little bit of that when he confronts Michael in the grocery store and says, you know, Mary is leaving you. And you see a bit of that swarminess happen, but that's about the best scene I think he has.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

That was so weird though, because does he? I mean, has he I don't even know if this was like in the movie, has he ever been over their house to see like a picture of the husband, to know what he looks like, to approach him in a store and be like, Oh, he's gonna leave you? I'm like, I don't know who this guy is. How do you just believe some random guy that comes up to you in a supermarket is like your wife for 40 years is gonna leave you? Like, what? That whole scene made no sense.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

So they don't do that to local supermarket?

SPEAKER_02 38:02

No, no, I haven't seen that happen.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

They have like secret shoppers who evaluate the relationships of everyone who walks through, and then it's like it's like supermarket sweep, but yeah, that works. They just tap you on the shoulder and it's like the grim reaper telling you your relationship is doomed.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

You know, guys, the prototyle is the most dangerous aisle.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

A lot of times they're like, well, wasn't it actually the butcher line? Wasn't it like the deli counter?

SPEAKER_04 38:24

That that's yeah, it was like the deli counter. And then Tracy Ludge just hugs Deborah Winger and has just the saddest look on his face possible. And it's just really heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Some stranger came up to you in a story, unless maybe you like you just know in intuitively, like, oh, he's totally her type. That's the guy that she's seeing on the side, but that's just a stretch for me. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah. You never really know how much each of them knows about the partner that they're cheating with. It's like, do you you know that you are seeing other people, but do you know who they are? Have you met or what's the situation? No, it wasn't it needed to be.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Absolutely. And I felt like, you know, generally speaking, the two actors uh are really good. That are the lovers, Lillian and Walters. Their characters, I don't know if it was their acting or the characterization of their actors, but I really did not care about the lovers ironically that much. I kept thinking to myself, shit, there's just nothing really all that special. And it's weird because I think Lutz and Winger are so good in the roles that I think that they actually help make this movie somewhat watchable. But I agree with Kaylin. The pacing is so slow in this movie. It's like 90 minutes. That's the worst part of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

It's a long 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 39:41

But I also I do think Lutz and Winger have great chemistry, but I also feel like she wasn't utilized to her fullest extent in this film because Let's had this whole backstory that he, you know, was a musician or something along those lines, which explains his attraction to Lucy because she does dance and that's in the arts and things like that. But then Winger, like Deborah Winger's character, doesn't get any of that.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

So I just it really does seem like Tracy Letz is the star.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

Right. For Jacobs, who really wanted Winger in this film, it just felt like the character he wrote for her was just was just really narrow, and which is which is sad because she is very good and I think their chemistry was great, but she just had less runway than Latin.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yeah, absolutely. I thought that the the main couple has good chemistry together. Uh I I think uh Deborah Winger has pretty good chemistry with Aiden Gillen. Uh Tracy Letz and Melora Wild Walters, I don't see the chemistry between those two characters at all. The problem with casting Aiden Gillen is if you're gonna give him a really small supporting role, people are just not gonna be able to not see him as his iconic characters. He's somebody who's kind of typecast for me after playing Littlefinger and uh Tommy Carsetti on the wire. So I'm always gonna see him as that. So unless he's playing somebody uniquely interesting, it's just gonna fall into expectations. And he never really lived up to the uh expectations except for that one moment. I mean, he's capable of a lot more than he was asked to do here.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Oh yeah, exactly. I feel like they all were, honestly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Well, this is a kind of standard Tracy Letz type performance from the ones I've seen him in.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

But I mean that tracks because he definitely gets, like everybody said, like he does definitely is the star of the show. And you do figure that like the fact that she's attracted to what the hell is his name again?

SPEAKER_03 41:30

Robert Robert. Or Amy Dylan.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

This is the most generic name. I can't remember it. Say that tells you everything. No, but if she was attracted to him, it's because she was attracted to Michael because Michael was involved in the arts and stuff. She's got a type, she's gonna be attracted to somebody else that's in the arts. And that's again revolving around Michael. It fails the Bechtel test like hardcore.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

I think that is part of what disappoint me with this because I think it's well cast for the two leads, but I think the supporting roles are just not there. Even the boyfriend and the girlfriend, I like the characters. The performances are okay from Joel and Erin, but again, nothing all that memorable. And I think that's my problem with the performances, is that Let's and Winger are pretty good. Really, Let's really, I kind of agree that it seems like her character is more I don't want to say introverted, but it's also very reserved, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Yes. Subtle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Yeah, I think that's a good word for it. Subtle, reserved, uh quiet. And I think he has a little bit more of the showier part of the two, like in terms of what he's doing. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

If you consider Deborah Winger's track record, she tends to always play those kinds of characters. She's always the quieter character to the Shirley McLean of terms of endearment. And I remember there was a movie that she was in when I saw that I saw like years ago, Black Widow, and she's a deck detective investigating this other woman who's killing all the men that she ends up with. She's always kind of that quiet, reserved character. This is a role made for her, but it's also unfair to her because she should have had so much more character to it, but she doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Yeah, yeah. That was kind of funny that you brought up the Beck Dell test because this is a movie that can barely pass the Turing test.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

For real. One thing I did want to note really quick is the direction. I think what's interesting about this is that Jacob's his style is very minimalist, and I think that's deliberate on his part, right? Because he used a lot of things like silence and the pace, like you said, Caitlin, is slow, but I think it's deliberately slow because it's trying to show this stagnant nature of their marriage. But I think that's really hard sometimes for a movie watcher because you just want to kind of get to the film. To me, I felt like it many ways. This film was very much talking without saying anything. It's like, okay, you're showing me something, you're trying to tell me something, but what is it that you're trying to get at? That was part of my problem here because I'm all about venables. It's slow pacing if it's done. Right. But for me, it just felt very deliberate. I don't want to say pretentious, but just felt very like, oh, we're going to make this indie art house comedy drama that we don't know what it's going to be exactly. But you know what? These are terrible white middle class people.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah, like to compare it to a recent example. Like, I didn't think I was going to like Train Dreams at all. And I absolutely adored that movie. And that is slow pacing gone right.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Slow burns are really, really difficult, and you need to have a compelling subject matter to keep people interested. Otherwise, it's just going to seem slow and you're not going to get the intent there. So yeah, Train Dreams is a good example of a good slow burn, or something like that, by like a Terrence Malik type film. But this film, it's just it's not compelling enough as a concept to justify the slow pacing.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Right, exactly. I totally agree. Um, I think we said almost everything we wanted to about this action. Do you just want to get on into scores?

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yeah, sounds good to me.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

So let's get on into the scores. And we'll start with Kaelin just because it's her category. So Kaelin, uh, what are you gonna give this?

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Once again, I am extremist and giving it a one, which I feel so icky when I say that, because I never ever go to either side of the extreme unless I have to, but I just I found nothing redeeming about it at all. So one.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

I think like I liked the direction from uh Zazel Jacobs. Uh it's very similar to a lot of his other movies that I've liked, uh Terry, French Exit, and especially his three daughters. Uh but his style is very much good but not great for me. The acting is mostly competent, as I said previously. I didn't really like Tyler Ross's performance as the son Joel, but everybody else is you know doing their part uh and doing a pretty good job of it. Um I'm right in the middle again. It's uh it's another three for me.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

I'm gonna go with a two for this category because the way I do the this category is kind of weird. I gave the performances a four, and then I gave the direction a one because I hated the slopeness, and then I was trying to think, okay, is this between a two or a three? And for me, it kind of ultimately became a two because it just didn't seem like there was a lot of energy to the direction or synergy that I was kind of looking for. Not that he's not nuanced, I don't want to suggest that Jacobs isn't, but the style maybe just doesn't work for me. So that's why I settled on a two.

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Well, I was the most generous out of everybody. I gave it a four.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

I appreciated the acting from the main people of Winger and Let's and in terms of the direction, I I really appreciated, and we'll get in more into this in the cinematography area, just a lot of the intimacy of the shots and the voyeurism that you have in in different takes that he has. And as I think Nick was saying, it it is a slice of life film, and I think Jacobs portrays that really well in in this in this film. It's is it an amazing film from a pot perspective? No. But I I think in terms of the casting, the acting, the direction, I I I think everybody was well cast. I I do think it was well acted. It's just unfortunately the story doesn't hold it up. But otherwise, that that's why it it got into the four category for me.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

We are all over the board with the ratings. No consent. You know, we're gonna have to call it the A24 hotline uh that we don't have and be like, so what do y'all think?

SPEAKER_02 47:31

You know what it is, too? Like we've said it a few times, and I think that might be it for me. Is generally slice of life won't usually work for me, so that might be why my scores are the worst. Because like I know it is, I don't know if it's critically lauded. Remember, I watched Life is Sweet for another movie club, and I despised that movie, and everybody else loved it, and it's another slice of life movie. So I think for the most part, those tend to not be my kind of movies.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Yeah, that's definitely an acquired taste for sure. Um let's move on to category three, the visual technical elements. We'll take it over to Darren.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

All right. Our next category is visual and technical elements, which encompasses subjects such as cinematography, editing, special effects, costumes, production design, sound and music. For the most part, this film strikes me as the kind that isn't generally expected to do well in these categories. I mean, there's no special effects that I can discern. Cinematography and editing aren't particularly highlights of the film, or is it production design or costumes? There is a score, which uh isn't too obtrusive or uh notable in either way. The the style and focus of this film is more on the personal interactions of the performers, and that's reflected in the standard technical components. Um one thing that I did take note of was the prominent use of the song It Must Be Love, which was originally written by uh Lobby Sofre in 1971, but was famously covered by the uh ska band Madness in 1981. The song is performed by characters throughout the movie and in the climactic scene, and it does fit nicely with the themes of the film, even if it did distract me a bit while I was trying to place exactly which song it was, with madness nowhere on my radar for a film like this. So uh what are some of the uh technical elements of this film that you guys found interesting or notable?

SPEAKER_00 49:16

So I'm gonna make you left, Darren, for a split second. I wrote in my notes because I should again post this because my stupid ass wrote this. Their piece played the Beach Boys, God only knows. Wait, oh no, right? It's madness, it must be love. Because the way I heard it, the way that Let sings it, I was thinking, oh, it's God only knows, which makes sense because it's California and the ultimate California band is what the Beach Boys. And then I was like, oh no, it's it must be love. And I felt like such an idiot, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Right? It's like playing with your mind when it does that because you're thinking it's one thing, and then it turns out it's something completely different. But like every time you hear those notes, you think, oh yeah, God only knows. It's like nope. Um, I do wonder if they couldn't get the rights to God only knows, perhaps. Um, yeah, it must be love works as well. And I didn't know that was a cover, but uh yeah, yeah, that's that's a great song. Yeah, great choice for the movie.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

You mentioned the score, just to continue the music aspect. I thought that was one of the most interesting things about the film because it's so lush and very European, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 50:22

Yes, yes. Jacobs actually had a really interesting quote about the music in an interview he did. He was saying, I felt the music doesn't just connect this film to much older romantic films, but also reminds you what romance first feels like. He says that's the throw of it, whether it's the husband or the person on the side, it's a contrast to how you could be feeling later. So I thought that that really just encompasses this kind of old, like otherworldly kind of old timey score with the sweeping music at different times. So I thought that that was a really interesting tie back to how he was talking about his influences from older films.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

I was listening to for god only knows, literally, uh, I was watching the behind-the-scenes featurette of the film that was on DVD. Mandy Hoffman. She uh works often with him, but what was really interesting about that was that they've worked together a lot and that he was actually gonna have no score with this movie because he thought that that would add to the theme of silence and alienation and all that stuff. But he when he was talking to her, that was kind of that ultimately convinced him that he should have something. And he's like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna make it like a classic Hollywood film, like you were saying earlier, Banda, about him having these throwbacks to these films from the 30s and 40s, which I have thoughts on because I don't know which ones exactly he's trying to go at. Maybe like the screwball comedies, like the awful truth, maybe like that type of hitpoint.

SPEAKER_04 51:48

Don't we wish he mentioned a Bergman film, I think, for that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

1955 Dream or Dreams that really tracks if it's based on you know, inspired by Bergman. Bergman made a lot of this type of relationship drama.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

That but yeah, that was definitely one of the films he said that was that he was also talking about Altman to um one of the influences. I I think got a lot of it from all over the map. But but that's interesting that he was gonna maybe not choose to have a score at all. And then he went for something that sounded very over the top um at different times.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Very bombastic. I was right, like this doesn't really fit the movie, or maybe it does, kinda. It feels like something that you would see in a romantic epic, like uh Marie Antoinette of the 30s, or um like an MGM production that you would see parodied and singing in the rain. I don't know, I'm throwing stuff out there, but it's just that if it just didn't like it's a good score that Hoffman did, but it I I don't know. Like Caleb, did you feel like the music kind of lend itself to the film?

SPEAKER_02 52:51

So you know me in music. If a movie sucks and the music's amazing, I'll think, oh, this movie is a 10-star movie. The music's amazing. I wrote my notes that the score ranges from cloying to ridiculous. And then when Amanda said her thing, I was like, oh no, now I feel really bad because that actually does track. But then I was like, wait, no, you know what? I'm putting a fork in it because when it did swell, it was when he was like standing behind the couch looking at her.

SPEAKER_04 53:13

Or at his office, yes. So I like that it I did understand those points as well.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

It was like not very like love is a splendid thing in Greece. Oh, they're on the beach and they're in love, or like friggin' what um Bert Lancaster, like on the beach, you know, like whoa, this is just a guy standing behind his couch. It did not fit the scenes, and I thought it was just so out of place. And I had read a couple reviews saying that it was pretentious, and I don't know if I would say it was pretentious, but it definitely was a little like definitely like you said, Amanda, over the top. It was just, it did not fit the very quiet atmosphere of the movie. And I honestly don't know. I'm trying to think while you guys are talking, like, would I prefer it without a score? But I don't know if that would have just made it 10 times more boring or if it would have actually made it more compelling. I legitimately couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

The lover's a guy, he's just a guy standing behind a couch asking a bunch of people to love him.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

Just staring at various women like Mary and Lucy from the corner of the room. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

He's just pouring wine for 10 minutes. She's watching a movie, it's just standing in the corner.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

With only a towel on, by the way. That's that's really the biggest takeaway of this movie for me. It's like, wow, Tracy Letz really likes to show off his dad, Bod.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

That bald in the flaunted.

SPEAKER_00 54:30

You know, he's got a gift. Um, so Darren was talking a little bit before about like the visual aspects not really being all that much of a standout. I kind of tend to agree because I feel like there's some things that the film's going for, absolutely, like the more like the naturalistic light in the muted colors with the set designs and all that stuff. And I we could even argue, like we were talking about earlier where like the offices and the houses, like they're very stagnant, they're boring, they're just blah. It's not flashy. And I think that it's just one of those things about the film is that I think that this is probably, at least for me, probably the weakest category for it. Just because A24 is known for this audacity, this bombastic kind of nature. It's like the score. If the score matched what the film looks like, it would be a hell of a lot more, I think, interesting if it was kind of playing around with that. But because it's going for this realism and it's going for all these awkward things, like you were mentioned earlier, Caitlin, about the deliberate pauses that felt very theatrical. Because it is like a three-act play in many ways. Like it didn't really do much for me on this category. To me, this was like the weakest one of the four for me.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

The sets do strike me as so static that they're almost like sets from a play.

SPEAKER_02 55:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

You know, there's no life to any of the places that they go except for maybe the dance studio.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

And the grocery store.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

Yeah, the grocery store.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

The grocery store is very catalyse, catalyst.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Movement going on in the those scenes, whereas everything else is basically just sitting still and just talking.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

Yeah. Well, you know what's interesting though, and I'm thinking out loud for a sec, I think the only time in the film, or one of the only times, is when Mary and Michael go to grocery stores outside the house, really, because when they go with their lovers, Mary meets Robert at the bar, for example, and uh Michael and Lucy go to the movies, and they go to a restaurant. But it's like really interesting that like it's almost an hour into the film that we actually see Michael and Mary go somewhere else besides their house, really.

SPEAKER_04 56:25

Yeah, it's it's very contained, it's very much, especially that last scene with with the sun uh and they're having that big confrontation. But it almost it feels I I know we're not in one location the whole time, but it all it almost feels like very Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolfesk? Where you're kind of just yeah, stuck with these characters in these very mundane, as we were saying, earlier settings.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

It's probably how their marriage feels, right? You know, you're stuck in one place with one person for so long that you start to venture out. I mean, you know, yeah. So that's how it happens.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

I think that's why the movie's about this routine and mundane this that's happening, and I think that uh ultimately that entraps them into this middle class suburban hellhole that they are, you know, stuck in. So but to me, this was I I don't know, maybe the one category I was like, this isn't it's rock suit per se. No, it's not that type of movie. It's gonna have strong text.

SPEAKER_04 57:23

But um, Jacobs did mention there was very close collaboration between um between Datum, the cinematographer, as well as as well as Winger in doing these kind of long takes and long dolly shots. And she really knew kind of where he wanted to go with the camera, which I thought was really interesting to kind of have that close collaboration between somebody doing that type of work and then also the main actor of the piece. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Yeah, that is pretty interesting. Do we want to get into scores?

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Yeah, yeah. So um I don't think there's anything particularly disappointing about any of the visual or technical elements of this film, but there's anything particularly notable either, uh, which is why I'm giving it a three out of five as my score.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

So I also thought that there was nothing really notable about it, but I thought that that actually hurt it. So I didn't it not necessarily hurt it, but it didn't feel like it deserved anything more than nothing, really. I would have given it probably like a two or a three for that, but I was so pissed off by the score that it lowered it even further. So I gave that category a one also. I'm sorry, don't hate me.

SPEAKER_04 58:27

Ooh, one's across the board. Um, not yet.

SPEAKER_02 58:30

Hold on.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

No, okay, okay. We got one across. I I gave this a two. I think as a lot of people said, it's it's just not that type of movie. It's not supposed to be super flashy. We don't have a lot of you know great lighting and beautiful nature shots and all this other stuff. It's just not meant to be that type of movie, and that's and sometimes films succeed like that, sometimes they don't. Um so so yeah, two, two for me out of five.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

I'm also giving this movie a two as well. And this is my third two, by the way. So maybe across the board, who knows? Maybe I'm like Caleb. I'm a little bit of a tease. I feel like nothing visually or technically stands out. And I think we're measuring this up against other A24 films, which is known for a distinct style and then like this kind of cutting edge. I feel like I've seen this already, and it just again, it's not all that memorable to me. So I would give this a higher score, but that score just didn't really work for me. It didn't feel like it was working here. And I wonder now if that was the point because it's almost used for irony that like they're having this lush European throwback to classical Hollywood with the music. So maybe it just lost on me, but that's why I gave it a two.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Like maybe it's like dissonance.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

Yeah, like maybe that's part of the problem is we don't know what the reason is. If it was like quote unquote good, then you'd be like, oh, this is definitely being used because like look at the irony of the situation. We don't know if it was used poorly or if it was supposed to be used ironically, and I think that hurts it, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

If it makes you think that's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Yeah, if it's not obvious, honestly. That's a problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

I I agree. Uh let's go on to the fourth and final category of the night. We're gonna look at cultural and social relevance. So this looks for things such as timely and enduring themes, social commentary and representation and identity. I think with this movie, I think we can look at this a couple different ways. I mean, this looks at a marriage in midlife crisis, this idea of a couple who potentially wants to start over. And we can also look at this through this like post-romantic Hollywood realism that is, I think it's definitely going for, where it's more, you know, instead of emphasizing things like passion or betrayal, it's cynical. And these characters aren't stable and they're just dissatisfied. There's really not a lot of love in the lovers, really, is what I'm trying to say. And then we can look at things maybe like generational perspectives and differences, especially with Joel, their son, and his girlfriend Erin, comparing that to the older characters in the film. So I'll let you guys take it away. Um, if anyone has any thoughts on this category.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

I I thought that Robert, uh, and I think I asked this, and I think I said this earlier. I thought that Robert posed a really interesting question in terms of was Michael really becoming a different person, or was he just putting on a show for a period of time until he got back married, and then he was gonna revert back to what he was doing before? So I thought it brought up really interesting points in terms of can people, you know, really change on can time away, or or at least for Mary and Michael, time not being physically, you know, t physically intimate together, can that, you know, can that make the heart grow fonder? And and can people break old patterns and habits? So I I thought that that was a really interesting thing. And it doesn't seem like based on these two characters, you can't because they just continue to cheat and be very sneaky and and things like that, even towards the end of the movie. We see that. But I thought that that it just brought up a really interesting idea of are are people capable of of change or will they always revert back to their base patterns?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

Yeah. I think probably the most strongest theme would be like the perseverance of enduring love, not necessarily passionate love, which I think works even though both characters are clearly ready to move on with their lives. There's still feelings between them. There's still, well, whether it's habit or actual like lust or excitement, uh, there is still some connection that is always going to be between the two of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

Yeah, I definitely think out of the four categories, this was probably the strongest one for me. The themes are timely and enduring. It's very easy to relate to. You've been together a long time, you get bored with each other, you see what else is out there. Grass is almost never greener on the other side, and then your kids are always, not always, but most of the time hurt by your decisions. So I think all of that was on point. I think it was a good idea to have older couple representation, because that's not something you always see in a film. So I thought that that was a very good idea. And I also thought it was a really great idea that Joel's girlfriend isn't white, which for a story like this was very surprising to me. I was like, oh, that's a nice little change there. So yeah, that was like a great little twist. I definitely thought that this was its strongest suit, that it does play to a very realistic theme. I just personally wish it was done better, and I honestly wish I could have seen it in a much more like I guess positive is the word, but not necessarily the correct word view that like Amanda has on the movie because everything she's been saying, I'm like, oh, I kind of wish I saw it that way.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:43

But but also with the girl from being of color, I thought she was the actor was great, and I thought, like I said, I wish the character had been better. But you can also argue, too, that unfortunately it might have been a little bit of tokenization in terms of there's one person of color.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

And you know, I also it's it's that borderline of should I be cringed out by this or should I be happy that it wasn't just like white supremacy? No, like seriously though, I thought that that was a nice touch, and I hope it wasn't just tokenism.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

I I hope not I I don't think that that was the intention easy, but I mean if you're playing if your parents are this bland, maybe you want a little flavor in your life when you look for an apartment for yourself. We want something different.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

And I mean, like you see that in real life all the time. You see people come from like incredibly boring white-bred parents, and they just they go and like find culture and a better life than what they have. So I thought I thought all of that was very on point.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:40

And yeah, again, I think I'm just thinking you just described the plot of get out.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

That's what I was thinking in my head too, honestly, Taryn. This is the bringing back black.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Oh, this is my black boyfriend. Okay, well, what skills do you have? No particular reason why I'm asking.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:55

They do show her parents. He does, he goes to her house for whatever holiday. So they're sorry, I forgot about saying that. We're saying the black family they showed at the end. We got more than one in the montage.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

But you know what that also shows is that they're both accepted of it, so it's almost like this post-racial like thing, especially in a middle class setting, like the lovers, and her parents have no agency, it's just in the montage, it's just shown for a couple seconds. But I think it's interesting if we think about this too in terms of gender, because I think that to me, that's the most interesting aspect of the film, besides class, because I mean, we talked about the middle class blandness that they're going with. But I think what's really interesting is that in this film, they're with their lovers and they're sort of trying to play up to this battle the sexes in a weird way. But so I guess in a way, that's why he didn't. And I don't think in any of the things that you found either, man, that he doesn't point to any specific films, but I'm thinking like. Like Breed Up Baby, the the Awful Truth by Ben Godfrey. Those type of screwball comedies. Because I think if I was looking at this as a screwball comedy, I would be like, okay, I kind of forgive some of these things that maybe aren't hidden with me all that well. So I don't know if you might agree with that, but you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:16

Yeah, I because the influences seem to be just just really wide, wide-ranging for this. And yeah, some of it is a bit just does feel a bit off, where uh it is just like us, we were talking about, I think, previously, with just some of the plot issues and and and things like that. And and there is a little bit of comic relief with Lucy, but not really. So it you get a little bit of the Super Bowl, I guess, aspect with Lucy doing the doesn't she hiss at one point at Deborah Winger as she's in the car with with Aaron. Um, so you get you you get a little bit of of of that kind of comedy and funniness, but yeah, it's just I don't well, and I think Let's has more humor too, yeah, to his character, because even at the end when he's talking to Mary on the phone, there's this playfulness that he has about him that tends to only come out when he's interacting with Mary. So I and or or at least it only seems genuine when he's interacting with Mary.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

He has the one scene with her, and he's like, he does that, ew, yuck, as if. And I'm like, why did that just happen? Like, was that meant to be funny? Because it was incredibly cringe, and it's like the only moment in the movie, aside from her kissing, that was it was just like so like, what where did that come from?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

Yeah, she also bites his hand for his phone at one point.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:37

That was a lot, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

That's a lot, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

Um, I think that also might be because Lucy is a more immature character, like it's just in general. And I mean, I wrote this in my notes. I'm like, what the holy hell is this? And in front of the girlfriend, what is going on in this?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:54

That's why she rubbed me. But I she like I said, I she seemed layered, like she definitely seemed smart and intuitive and just in on and knew what was happening, but at the same time, she was also just so paranoid and very petty, and that just really turned me off from her.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

Blame her for being paranoid, though.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:15

True, he wasn't the best.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

He but he was he was going back to his wife, but just not as a relationship sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

She seemed more tropey, like this is what this girlfriend is. You know, she was just a card's new character, basically.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

Kind of like a hysterical character in a way. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:33

I which I didn't yes, and I didn't didn't love that. But I also thought it was interesting that Let said in an interview with the LA Times, he said, it's a really interesting thing to consider what are the things you're willing to judge other people for. Right. And he says that line changes as I get older. He says I'm getting to be a combination of less judgmental as he ages. So I just the idea too, not only, you know, can people change, but also are these bad people? I think at one point Mary, as she's practicing her speech for her son in the car, is talking about, you know, we've messed up, but we're not bad people. Like, are these people bad people, or did they just, you know, make a mistake, or did they just fall out of love? So I I think that that's a really interesting aspect as well to consider. Like, how do we how do we view these people? How do we judge these people?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

Yeah, and I don't judge the side uh partners as harshly because they are in a situation where they feel like they're standing on a trapdoor at all times. It's easier to get rid of them than it is to get rid of your spouse. And you you're gonna feel that pressure, especially if it is like over time, where it's like, yeah, we're separated and I'm gonna leave him, we're gonna get that divorce, we're gonna do that, and you keep pushing it further and further and further, and you know, you know, they finally do establish a firm deadline, and it looks like they actually stuck to it. But it's like until it actually happens, you're never gonna feel secure in that relationship. So you know, the two characters handle it in different ways, but both of them are showing a lot of insecurity, and uh, that makes sense for them. So I don't really I don't really judge them for feeling insecure in the situation because they're not in a secure situation, so and they're not honest with their partners or their lovers, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:18

So I think that's the biggest thing that may be very hard for me to be sympathetic with the married couple because I feel like they're playing both sides, and it's like that analogy you can't have your cake and eat it too. And I feel like, especially Let's character, it feels like um he definitely wants both.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

Well, you can, you can, but you have to explore like a polyamorous situation, which I'm surprised never comes up in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

Or therapy. I mean, therapy, what a thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:49

And they're partners.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:51

I never thought that they were bad people. I just thought that they're like it's very, very relatable. Like you're with somebody a long time and you don't want to leave them because you still love them and you're also in this well, even though so much history and things like that. Yeah, it's it's what's comfortable, it's what you're used to, and then you're just like, oh, I need anything to break me out of this like complete mental prison that I'm in. I don't think they're bad people, I think they're just lost.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

Yeah, I think that that's kind of how I feel about them is that they just seem disillusioned with one another and really the world and their other partners as well. Something I did want to mention, it really has nothing to do with the movie, but it's a milestone that I don't know if you all are aware of. So The Lovers is the first movie to ever be remade after it's released, like an A24 film being remade. And it was remade uh in two years ago in 2024, and it was a Hindi film called Two Plus Two Equals Love. Oh. So I thought that was kind of interesting because I hadn't seen the film, but it would be really interesting to compare this to in terms of the cultural depictions of couples and uh whatnot. So but the first day 24 film to ever get the remake treatment is The Lovers. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:01

Maybe we should watch that version.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

If you thought this was hard to find, I imagine that one's probably pretty hard to find too.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

It was it it actually did pretty well from what I was hearing. Yeah, but I think the thing is from the reviews that I was reading about two plus two equals love, is that they play it more as a rom com.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

Ah, I mean that might have worked better, honestly. Probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

I do love a rom-com, and they look much younger too. Like, I'm gonna show you guys the poster just so you guys see it. And don't get mad, but I was not attempted to say the the Hindi title. But look at how this is the remake.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:37

So like they really yeah, but I mean, like they're they're all like in there, like at most late 20s, and I feel like it's a very pretty cast.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:45

It is a good looking cast.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:47

But what like what makes this movie work, quote unquote, is that they're older, like that nobody like nobody's above the age of like 28 in this picture.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:55

Yeah, yeah, kind of interesting. Yeah, yeah, it depends on what what what direction they go with it, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:02

Do you guys want to go into the scores? Yeah, yes. I'll go first. Uh, I feel so predictable this episode. I gave this a two because ultimately I felt like this film, besides the black girlfriend being cast and maybe some of the gender dynamics, it didn't really have as much social commentary as I was maybe hoping. And I feel like part of it is like we've been saying throughout our discussion of this film, like it doesn't really know what it wants to do or say. And if a film is like that, I can't give it any higher than a two. And I don't like really believe in giving films ones unless like they're truly terrible films. And I'm the one who said the effing lovers, and I had to edit that out, but I didn't pick up on the social relevance of it as much as um maybe others.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:50

There's not much in the way of cultural or social relevance in this movie for me, but there's nothing particularly off either, as it's more of a character study than a social commentary film. Uh score-wise, it's a clean sweep of all threes for me with this film.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:04

For me, I'm going with Nick on this one. I gave it a two, which is my highest score so far. Yay! Well, except for like plot, which was vitriolic for me. But all my other scores have been lower than I usually would give just because I felt like not necessarily as much that I hated it, just that stuff was missing. And that's the same approach I took to this category. It's not that I hated it. Like I said, I I do think that it was very on par with the themes and such, but culturally relevant, like that's a stretch. There are things that definitely deserve a higher score for being much more culturally relevant. So yeah, I I gave it a two because, like, you know, like I said before, definitely it would be much better to pay more attention to older couples in movies and not always the pretty people and such like that. So, you know, that was a good thing, and the themes are definitely on point with cheating and can we fall in love again? And blah. I didn't think it was particularly strong. So that's why I gave it a two, not necessarily out of hatred, just because I just thought there was sh there wasn't that much there, but there was more there than the other categories for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:00

I went with a three, I think because it it did tap into the representation for older couples. It did show these people that were, you know, desirable and that had partners, and not saying obviously that older people cannot be, but we don't normally see that kind of representation, you know, on screen. And it, you know, it it it did did it do as much as as Moonlight did did in terms of representation. No. But I think just because of just the lack of you know, representation in that area, I thought this film was important for that reason. And I also thought it brought up a lot of interesting points about identity and relationships and you know, in terms of judging character flaws and and characters in in films. So yeah, I I gave it I gave it a three out of five for that. So I'm just a little in the middle there.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:54

I really wish I could watch movies more like you. Like you are so much more. Like I am so cynical when I watch movies.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:01

I think because kudos to kudos to this podcast. Now, before I start watching these things, I start trying to compile as many articles and interviews and other things as I can. So just I go into it sometimes with more context than I typically have when I watch a film. So I think that that maybe helps to enhance my viewings. Maybe I would have hated it had I not known some of these things.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:27

Yeah, no, I definitely think that helps. Like our long-standing movie club. Like the reason why sometimes we love a movie more after we walk away from it is once everybody gives their context and it's like, oh, actually, like where you you find out something was like the director's passion project, and this is all they could do to make it, and then you're like, well, I can't hate it now.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:44

Like some of it's just really, really fast. Well, I mean, in particular with the stuff with Barry Jenkins, all of that was incredibly interesting, and there was also a lot more material to absorb from that versus versus this. This was you I found more reviews of this film than I did interviews. I I really had to search through some there's some public radio and and other things to to find such an NVR article. Yeah, that's why that's why you got the Northeast Public Radio. That interview what I listened to with Jacobs.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

This sounds like somebody who's talking in a very calm, dulcile voice on a national public radio broadcast. Yes and you're drinking your morning coffee as you enjoyed.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:27

The woman sounded exactly like that as she was interviewing him for the 15 minutes. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:33

Oh, yeah, it's the MPR sound.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:35

The MPR sound bites. No transcript for this interview. It was just I had to keep replaying the same 15 minutes over and over again to get here.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

I think what's really funny is that's kind of what I thought about this movie. It kind of almost put me to sleep in many ways. And I had watched this and I was texting a couple of you. I was like, Oh god, I gotta rewatch this movie because uh for context, I gave this a star and a half on letterbox out of five, and like Darren Kaylin, especially know this. I don't go lower than a star and a half, and it must be really bad for me to do that. I don't like a one is like a catastrophe.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:13

Like at my either.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:15

What is an example of a one that you should do? Oh my god. Have I opened up a can of worms?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:21

So I think for being a one-star film, let me look really fast.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:25

Well, I want to look too at mine. My only one star that I can remember giving out is for Transformers, the movie from 1986. The animated cartoon, and it is a mess.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:34

Oh, I gave a one and a half for Finding Joy, that lovely Tyler Perry.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

Oh no, well, I don't watch a lot of Tyler Perry movies.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:41

So you gotta watch one a year, probably just just for the giggles there.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:46

The worst movies I watch every year when I'm home for the holidays and let my parents pick what we'd watch on Netflix.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

I think the most recent one star book I gave was the most recent I Know You Did Last Summer. That was so bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:58

That's worthy of a terrible review. Um, what would you give this movie if you re-rated it still a one and a half?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:04

Oh yeah. I was I I I think my review is gonna be I rewatched this for my podcast and I want three hours of my life back.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:11

I brought it down to three and a half stars uh from four, but um that is like that means it's like I'm barely liked it, honestly. Three stars means it's just like there's barely enough to recommend it. Three and a half is like it's a little bit better than that, but it's not quite notable. So I'm really nice with my reviews. I think I I gave a one and a half star to Tom and Jerry. That's like the most recent one that's that's gotten that kind of uh smear on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

Yeah, I usually never give one star reviews because I can almost always find something redeemable. There's like one character that I like, or it's the score, or the cinematography. I can almost always pick out something that I enjoy and almost never give out one star. So if I give a one-star of overall review to a movie, like you know I absolutely hated it. And this movie made me feel like the next day I just kept remembering it and being like, oh my god, I can't watch a movie ever again.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:02

I'm just so is that what you'd give this one, Caitlin?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:06

One? Yes, that's what I gave this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:07

Yes, Amanda, if you were to read two and a half.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:10

Yeah. Okay. That's usually what I give movies are two, two and a half.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:14

Okay. So yeah, that's about the same for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

This is a good transition, Darren, because you could tell us our scores and tell us exactly if it's A24 essential, not essential, almost essential. So take it away, Darren.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:28

All right. So based on the combined ratings for all four categories and the fact that none of the four reviewers give the film a total score of 16 or higher, and A24 Essential requires that three of us do. The is in fact not viewed by the reviewers on this podcast to be an A24 essential film. Amanda and Darren, myself, each gave it a combined score of 12. Nick gave it an eight, and Caitlin gave it a five, giving it an average score of 9.25, which qualifies it as the lowest grade of not essential. Overall, The Lovers is the second highest, aka the lowest, as this is only the second episode, rated film with a score total score of 37. In the context, the highest rated film overall remains Moonlight with a score of 77. 77 to 37. The film ranks as the second slash lowest rated film for all four individual reviewers as well, with Darren ranking it as the closest to Moonlight overall by a margin of seven points, 19 to 12. Amanda favors Moonlight by a score of 20 to 12, Nick by 20 to 8, and Kalen by 18 to 5.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:33

So we really did not like this movie because anything under a 10 is really not a I wasn't expecting it to average under a 10.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:42

Well, that's the Kalen factor.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:45

If this got essential, I was gonna say we have to end this podcast right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:50

This movie is not for Kaylin. She's not a lover.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:53

I am not a lover of she's a fighter, people.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:56

Yes, that's the subtitle of the episode, The Haters.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:02

Oh my god. Uh yeah, I mean, it's it's unfortunate because we had probably a film that is going to be maybe at the pinnacle of what we're gonna give a high scores as a consensus for the group. And then this one is not even on the almost essential scale. So I think that's what's interesting about this podcast is that we all have these different perspectives because even when we were doing the raid-its, I literally wrote in the comment, I don't even know where we fall because we're given different scores for most of these categories. So it's pretty interesting how this happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:33

I gotta feel there's gonna be some distance put between Moonlight and uh the lovers in the overall rankings once we get like 10, 20, 30 episodes.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:41

Well, anything uh please, anything better than lovers, guys. Come on. I'm really curious what we get.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:49

The bar is low.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:50

Yes. So fingers crossed. Okay, guys, so for this part of the episode, we are going to spin the wheel. So before we do anything, I want to start going forward seeing the movies that we add to the wheel that will be in contention. So the two movies that are added are Andre is an idiot, which is an A24 documentary that came out about a producer who discovers he has cancer. So if that's the first one, and then the next one, ironically, we're discussing this the day that it's coming out, or you know, the early release is Undertone. So those are the two movies. And Undertone, by the way, is an A24 horror film about sound and podcasts. So, you know, it's right up our alley. But guys, are you ready for the wheel to determine our fate and to tell us what we're gonna watch in April?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:47

Let's go for it. April's my birthday month. So hopefully it's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:51

Hopefully it is a good one.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:03

Oh no, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:08

Something I've always wanted to see. But I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:12

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:14

Oh my this is another movie that Nick is not a huge fan of.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:18

No, well, uh, I'll make up the distance, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:22

So the winner is The Killin of a Sacred Deer. So that is gonna be our movie for April 2026, and we will be releasing that in, of course, month of April, which is also an just birthday. So happy early birthday, Amanda.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:37

Yay.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:38

Oh, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:39

Enjoy this happy, pleasant movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:42

As a birthday present to Amanda, if you are I know maybe I should watch it on my act on April 4th on my birthday to be like no, I would not do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:51

No, don't do birthday. No, as a birthday present to you, if you are squeamish, look away for like the first five minutes of the movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:59

That's what I'm gonna be doing during the most of our horror films.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:01

My immediate reaction that thought comes to mind is that meme where it's the cartoon, the onion cartoon, where the guy with the label on his shirt that says sicko's is staring into a window holding a glass and smiling creepily, going, Yes. So that's my reaction to the killing of a sacred deer being selected. Because yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:23

Like with the podcast after this.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:26

This is uh this is uh definitely sicko country, and I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:31

Amanda, you've never seen it. Caitlin, you've seen it before, haven't you? Yes. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I love this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:37

I think when I watch this movie, I was at a place in my life where I wanted positive, happy things.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:43

Um, you got your ghost instead.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:46

Yeah, I think I watch at home and I'm open for a rewatch because again, all in neutrality. I try to go in with an open mind. Uh, so you know, the wheel just really doesn't like me.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:58

And one thing I'm just gonna notice really is You're getting all the ones you hate out of the way up front.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:02

So Well, uh, if you were worried that the lovers was dull, uh, this isn't dull.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:09

Oh no. My my antlers are going up. That's all I'm gonna say. But what I was gonna say is that if you guys notice with the wheel, it's also another 2017 movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:20

Oh wow. Oh wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:22

So that's interesting. Our first movie was 2016 with uh Moonlight. Let's be honest, people probably don't watch it until 2017. But if you look at the A24 filmography, Moonlight came out in October 2016. That sounds about right, Amanda. And then The Lovers came out in May 2017, and then the killing of a secret year came out in October 2017. So it's really weird that we've watched three movies in the span of a year for in order, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:52

That's weird. That's yeah, that's that is really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:56

And our host can attest that it is completely randomized and we spin the wheel.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:01

It is we hear the wheel spinning, we see the massive amount of names on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:06

And it gets screwed every time so far.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:09

I was hoping to have like a really light one for A.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:13

You didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:13

You got one already with the lovers.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:16

The odds are not in your favor. So the good news though is that this is on a lot of streaming platforms. This one is available on HBO Max. Uh, it's available on the rental services, but HBO Max is the main subscription service that it's available on sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:32

So that's gonna be our movie, The Killin' of a Sacred Deer, for April 2026. Uh so I look forward to that conversation. That's gonna be a wild ass conversation, but let's transition to say thank you so much to our co-hosts for doing this episode on the lovers. Hopefully, uh Zizel Jacobs did not listen to this episode or anyone associated with this movie. No one has talked about the lovers as much as us in this episode since it came out. Let's be honest. Don't hate me, Jacobs. Anyway, uh, thank you guys so much for coming on the show with me, joining me on this fun journey. Uh, while we're at it, follow us at A24 CaratGold, all spelled out on your favorite social media platform. So we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook, we're on Twitter, and Threads and Blue Sky, and all the others, too many to name almost, and that same handle at A24 CaratGold. You could support the show uh with that handle on our Patreon account. So some awesome stuff there. You can get early access to these episodes, any bonus content, and maybe potential prizes. So join us there. Uh while you're at it, if you're compelled to do so, leave us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That actually helps people discover and find the show. So that's all really important stuff. So if you like what you heard, leave us a rating. And with that said, I want to thank Darren, Kalen, and Amanda for coming on the show tonight. And thank you to our listeners for checking us out. And uh, we'll catch you all next one.